Bill Skidmore taught courses on torture and human rights at Carleton University. He invited guest speakers who described their experiences. Few torturers are sadists; mostly they are working on behalf of the state to suppress political opposition. The effects of brutality are lasting for both the torturer and the victim (or "survivor" -- for some people overcome many of the effects of the trauma and live to prevent its recurrence elsewhere). He and his students became emotional in these classes but they all agreed that it was worth experiencing it, for we all need to know.