Original release April 9, 2013.

Encore release October 1, 2018.

Encore release June 24, 2017.

We interview Dr. Frans de Waal, world-renowned primatologist and author of The Bonobo and the Atheist: In Search of Humanism among the Primates (available in hardcover and for Kindle). In this new book, he looks at the pre-human basis for morality, how human beings do not hold a monopoly on morals, and takes the "New Atheists" to task for being "insulting" to religious folk. For more about Dr. de Waal, visit the Living Links website.

Plus:

A North Carolina legislator has proposed a resolution stating that the First Amendment applies only to the US Congress and rejects any federal court ruling that insists otherwise. Theoretically the state would be claiming the power to pass a law declaring an official state religion. What year is this?

An appeals court has tossed out American Atheists' lawsuit to prevent the National September 11 Memorial and Museum from displaying a piece of rubble from the WTC that resembles a Christian cross.

The Baseball Bat of Doubt! In this installment of our new recurring segment, another listener from Finland shares what led him to reject religion and embrace science and reason.