“Mythology is not just humanity’s fluff […] it’s: do you dare to understand how things have been coded from first principles?”

-Rayner Jae Liu

In a time where chaos is the word on everyone’s lips, Andy sits down with Rayner Jae Liu in a vast and reflective conversation about how humans make meaning when our familiar paradigms begin to crumble.

Rayner is an evolutionary entrepreneur, executive coach, cultural psychologist, and systems strategist creating frameworks, platforms, and ecosystems that bridge inner transformation and systemic change for a complex age. He is a practitioner who moves between worlds: international relations and geopolitics, leadership development, systems and complexity theory, and mythological and archetypal thinking. In this episode, he invites us to reconsider chaos as a necessary force of disruption, revealing where our systems are no longer aligned with reality.

Together, Andy and Rainer explore what it means to live at the “edge” of dominant paradigms, asking how myth functions as a form of cultural source code, shaping how societies see, speak, and act. Drawing on Greek mythology (particularly the goddess Eris), Taoist ideas of balance and rebalancing, and lived experiences within global political systems, this conversation probes how sacred disruption can catalyze discernment, transformation, and new forms of leadership.

Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when published"Fire" by Judy Brown

What makes a fire burn

is space between the logs,

a breathing space.

Too much of a good thing,

too many logs

packed in too tight

can douse the flames

almost as surely

as a pail of water would.

So building fires

requires attention

to the spaces in between,

as much as to the wood.

When we are able to build

open spaces

in the same way

we have learned

to pile on the logs,

then we can come to see how

it is fuel, and absence of the fuel

together, that make fire possible

We only need to lay a log

lightly from time to time.

A fire

grows

simply because the space is there,

with openings

in which the flame

that knows just how it wants to burn

can find its way.

Show Notes:

• https://raynerjaeliu.com

• The New Paradigm Leadership Podcast with Rayner Jai Liu

• Eris and The 21st Century | Rayner Jae Liu

• Eris (mythology)

• Taoist philosophy

• René Descartes

• Systems theory

Connect with Andy:

• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewjcahill/

• Instagram: https://instagram.com/wonderdomepodcast​

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