In this episode of The Learning and Performance Podcast, I interview Tom McDowall, an experienced learning and development professional and the founder of Evolve Learning Design about the importance of upskilling and reskilling—both for the broader workforce and for L&D teams themselves. We discuss why many traditional models in the field are outdated and no longer serve us and how to skill better. Tom has worked across almost every L&D role—from facilitator to digital designer to head of learning design—and now focuses on helping L&D teams improve how they think, operate, and deliver impact. This conversation is packed with insight and honesty, and I think you’ll walk away with a sharper perspective on how to help people—and yourself—learn and perform better.

Key Topics:

In the conversation, we hit on a number of interesting topics relevant to learning and performance, including:

• What performance is and why it depends just as much on systems as it does on people
• Why L&D often solves the wrong problems

• The difference between capability and opportunity—and how learning only supports one

• Tom’s journey into L&D and his critique of self-made success narratives

• What a product mindset looks like in practice

• Why upskilling is uncomfortable—but necessary—and how to support it without overwhelming people

• How to measure the success of upskilling initiatives

• Practical strategies for internal L&D teams to do more with less

• The importance of context awareness and system thinking

• And more.

Connect with Tom

• ⁠Evolve ⁠– Tom’s learning consultancy⁠⁠⁠⁠
• IDTx Conference - Tom's conference for IDers
• LinkedIn
• YouTube

Notes, Mentions, and Resources:

• Performance = where capability (internal KSAs) and opportunity (external environmental supports) meet

• W. Edwards Deming – “A bad system will beat a good person every time.”

• Learning = cognitive process of knowledge and skill development

• Designing “learning” vs. designing training and resources for learning to occur

• Spaced practice, dripped content

• Informal learning occurring all the time

• Thrive – LXP platform Tom worked with

• Colossyan – AI avatar video platform Tom consulted with

• Why luck is a big element of careers

• Taking a “product mindset” in L&D—viewing L&D as a provider of internal products

• Thomas Gilbert – Human Competence Model

• Guy Wallace – Performance-based instructional design

• Greg Arthur – Learning experience design podcast guest

• Evolve – Tom’s learning design consultancy

• The myth of the learner—people don't necessarily want to learn, value learning, or feel comfortable doing it

• Goal = more performant employees/professionals, not satisfied learners

• Upskilling and reskilling as a form of change management

• Reskilling as uncomfortable but a kind/human thing to do

• WEF Jobs Insight Report (2025) – Human-only jobs declining, high churn/mobility, growing demand for physical labor

• Importance of L&D upskilling itself and practicing what it preaches

• Challenges of upskilling L&D: budget, assumptions, discomfort, outdated models, resistance to change

• Addressing those challenges: be flexible, communicate value, use data

• Delivering outcomes > outputs

• Measuring upskilling impact: connect skills to KPIs, observe behavior change, avoid self-assessments, explore genAI roleplays, consider environmental variables

• Core L&D skills today: resilience, tech elasticity, mental health awareness

• The Learning Network (UK) – Peer-driven L&D community

• Pixar’s Brain Trust – Honest, iterative creative feedback

• Being nice vs. being kind – Hard truths help people grow

• Kim Scott – Radical Candor – Clear, caring feedback

• Investing in contextual intelligence—reading widely and understanding learner environments

• Adam Savage’s principle of first-order retrieval – Reduce friction and increase flow

• Adam Grant – WorkLife Podcast – Making work better

• Why you shouldn’t always ask older professionals for advice first

• Gordon Brown – Seven Ways to Change the World – Insight into global systemic change

• STOP Technique – Stop, Take a Breath, Observe, Proceed