We’re all doing great work… but is it working? Today I chat with Kevin M. Yates, the global L&D detective who measures whether learning fulfills its purpose. He shows us how to move beyond smile sheets and activity metrics to evidence that behaviour changed and business goals budged.

What you’ll learn

• North Star clarity: Define results up-front as “measurable activation of behaviour/performance that advances a business goal.”
• Discovery before delivery: How to run a pre-workshop “investigation” with stakeholders (goals, performance requirements, gaps, risks, context).
• Performance gaps 101: Establish baselines → agree the “from–to” shift → align measures.
• Fulfilment of purpose > ‘impact’: Avoid the buzzword. Get specific, intentional, and target-led.
• Useful post-workshop data: What to ask (and what to ditch) so your survey reveals actions—not platitudes.
• Being brave + authentic: Kevin’s personal pivot on showing up as himself (on stage, online, and at work).

Try this — Detective’s Checklist

1. Define the result (before design):

• Which business goal is at stake?
• Which behaviour(s) must change?
• What’s the baseline now? What’s the target after?

1. Map the chain: Workshop → specific behaviour(s) → performance metric(s) → business goal.
2. Co-own measures: With your sponsor, choose 1–3 leading indicators (behavioural) and 1–2 lagging indicators (business).
3. Post-workshop, ask better questions (3–5 only):

• “Which specific action from today will you do in the next 7 days?”
• “What could block you, and what support do you need?”
• “How confident are you to perform X on the job (1–5)? What would raise that by one point?”
• “Which metric/outcome will this action influence for your team?”
• “When will you do a quick check-in on progress (date)?”
• (Skip: food, room, generic ‘did you like it?’)

1. Follow-up cadence: 30/60/90-day nudges to capture evidence (manager confirmation, system data, quick self-report on behaviours used).

Nuggets I loved

• “Not easy ≠ not possible.”
• Swap “impact” for “fulfilment of purpose.”
• Discovery conversations transform us from order-takers to performance consultants.

About Kevin

Kevin solves measurement mysteries for L&D, using facts, evidence, and data to show whether learning changed behaviour and moved business goals. He’s worked globally for 20+ years and is affectionately known as “The L&D Detective.”

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Show notes for every episode at https://podcast.leannehughes.com

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