This week, Jen’s guest is Ben Smith, author of Traffic: Genius, Rivalry, and Delusion in the Billion-Dollar Race to Go Viral. This hot new book takes a close look at the people and the patterns behind the click-bait-journalism-world that helped inflate Donald Trump but also gave us a renewed faith in humanity with an endless supply of baby-animal rescue videos.

You know Ben from his role as the founding editor-in-chief for BuzzFeed News where he released the Steele Dossier to the world. Today, Ben is the editor-in-chief of Semafor, a new global news organization that launched last year. Just before that he was the media columnist for the New York Times. Jen and Ben recorded this interview just before Buzzfeed CEO Jonah Peretti announced plans to shutter Buzzfeed News.

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