Today's guest is Andrew Keys, co-founder and chairman of The Ether Machine and managing partner of DARMA Capital. We discuss why crypto treasury companies offer superior returns to ETFs through active yield generation, the structural limitations preventing ETFs from capturing Ethereum's full economic value, and Andrew's $654 million bet on Ethereum's future as the infrastructure for a decentralized internet. Andrew also shares lessons from a decade building Ethereum's institutional adoption and why clean corporate structures matter more than speed to market.

GUEST LINKS:

* Andrew Keys: https://x.com/AK_EtherMachine

* The Ether Machine: https://x.com/TheEtherMachine

* DARMA Capital: https://x.com/darmacapital

HOST LINKS:

* Ryan Rodenbaugh: https://twitter.com/ryanrodenbaugh

* Vaults.fyi: https://vaults.fyi

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TIMESTAMPS:

* [00:18] Andrew's Background & Early Ethereum Journey

* [05:39] ETFs vs Digital Asset Treasuries (DATs)

* [08:15] North Star Metric: Ether Concentration Per Share

* [09:54] Institutional Investor Education & Market Response

* [10:25] Ethereum's Evolving Narrative & Stablecoin Product-Market Fit

* [12:40] Ethereum's Market Dominance in High-Quality Liquid Assets

* [16:57] DARMA Capital's Institutional Staking Business

* [20:35] Why Go Public: Philosophy vs Opportunity

* [22:46] Regulatory Environment & Long-Term Vision

* [23:54] Clean Corporate Structure Strategy

* [28:10] The Future of Altcoin DATs & Market Sustainability

* [29:36] Lessons Learned: From Naive Decentralization to Meeting People Where They Are

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