Makeup, model railway figures and underwear - what have these got to do with black history and black leadership in the UK? Are you leading conversations about race? How do you approach them in school and outside? Why are they needed and what might be the positive impact of engaging?

I talk to Deanna Lyncook from the History Hotline podcast and Renata Joseph, headteacher of a successful South London secondary school, who are both leading conversations about race in positive, effective ways.

If you want a way forward for your school to address race; if you want a strategy and content, then this is the episode for you.