I would say I became serious about making a podcast when I started an evening class in May. (Yes, there is now such a thing as classes to learn podcasting.) In the class, we would talk about our projects, and a classmate told me about her cousin, Carol Badran, my guest for this episode. I wanted to talk with Carol because, sadly, she’s had a lot of experience with death. She lost her dad at a young age. She lost friends to AIDS. More recently, she lost her mom and both her sisters within 15 months. Over the course of this wide-ranging conversation, we cover some specifics of these incidents, but I especially appreciate the ideas, dare I say, the wisdom Carol has acquired on how we can better support others in grief and better take care of ourselves when we experience it.

For example, if you’ve ever wondered how to approach someone experiencing loss, you may get some ideas based on how Carol talks about friends she got closer to or, unfortunately, became distanced from during this period. She also talks about how the pain gets easier to bear as well as the importance of forgiveness.

As I listen again to this conversation, I certainly hear sadness and pain but there’s also laughter and resilience, such as when she shares some surprisingly optimistic thoughts on feeling alone.

I sat down with Carol Badran in July at her home in Oakland, California. Here’s our conversation.