Why did a white female who unleased her dog illegally in Central Park hysterically call 911 after a black male birdwatcher simply asked her to control it?

Why are conversations about race difficult and messy - especially for white people? What's the fear? What's the risk? What's the barrier? And what's the gain for everyone if we get it right? Mike talks to New York Times bestselling author Dr Robin DiAngelo and History Hotline's Deanna Lyncook about Robin's book and concept, White Fragility. Find out what it is and how to start meaningful discourse about being black and about being white.

This episode partners with #28 Black Leadership as a grounding for you and your organisation to really get to grips with an essential aspect of diversity and inclusion.