In this episode Evan , Joshua, and Tony pick up where they left off — exploring the spiritual dimension of growth and what it means to acknowledge that something beyond us shapes our work, relationships, and lives.

They share personal stories of faith, doubt, and discovery, from sobriety and psychedelics to raising kids and revisiting childhood traditions, and wrestle with questions of control, belief, and trust. The conversation moves through paradox: how to both orient toward what’s above and navigate what’s right in front of us.

Drawing on influences like Joseph Campbell, Richard Rohr, and Alan Watts, the hosts reflect on systems, containers, and the importance of spiritual frameworks in raising grounded families and becoming whole men.

A thoughtful dialogue on belief without certainty, tradition without rigidity, and finding your footing in the space between faith and freedom.

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• Mentioned in this episode: The Telepathy Tapes, Joseph Campbell, Richard Rohr, Alan Watts.