<div>In the fourth episode of PHD and eatbigfish’s podcast series, host and founder of eatbigfish Adam Morgan speaks with Daniel Ordóñez, Chief Growth Officer at Danone, and Avin Narasimhan, Head of Communications Planning at PHD US, on what a challenger mindset means for legacy brands and why challenger thinking isn’t necessarily about being small or new. </div>

In the fourth episode of PHD and eatbigfish’s podcast series, host and founder of eatbigfish Adam Morgan speaks with Daniel Ordóñez, Chief Growth Officer at Danone, and Avin Narasimhan, Head of Communications Planning at PHD US, on what a challenger mindset means for legacy brands and why challenger thinking isn’t necessarily about being small or new.

In the fourth episode of PHD and eatbigfish’s podcast series, host and founder of eatbigfish Adam Morgan speaks with Daniel Ordóñez, Chief Growth Officer at Danone, and Avin Narasimhan, Head of Communications Planning at PHD US, on what a challenger mindset means for legacy brands and why challenger thinking isn’t necessarily about being small or new.&nbsp;

4: Challenger thinking for legacy brands

Twenty years after the concept of the challenger brand was popularised, a new wave of challengers has been changing the way the categories around us think and behave. Financed by a new type of investor, harnessing emerging structural changes and new ways to build relationships with their consumers, they have generated an enormous energy and excitement in their marketing and business community.

In this six-part podcast series, hear from PHD, eatbigfish and a selection of brand guests as they draw on experiences and discuss how a challenger mindset can help give a clear focus, and what aspects of a challenger mindset are going to be important to thrive in this new world.

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Twenty years after the concept of the challenger brand was popularised, a new wave of challengers has been changing the way the categories around us think and behave. Financed by a new type of investor, harnessing emerging structural changes and new ways to build relationships with their consumers, they have generated an enormous energy and excitement in their marketing and business community. In this six-part podcast series, hear from PHD, eatbigfish and a selection of brand guests as they draw on experiences and discuss how a challenger mindset can help give a clear focus, and what aspects of a challenger mindset are going to be important to thrive in this new world.

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4: Challenger thinking for legacy brands

4: Challenger thinking for legacy brands