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4-H Leadership
Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford take a look at the 4-H Leadership program
Transcript:
Announcer: This is 4-H-4-U-2, a podcast from the Mississippi State University extension service promoting forage programs and positive youth development. Here now, your host, Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: All right, well welcome to 4-H-4-U-2, again, and Cobie, how are you today?
Cobie Rutherford: Doing fantastic John. It's been a busy, fast week. Gosh.
John Long: It's like you'd kicked an ant bed in the 4-H office, right?
Cobie Rutherford: I know, we go the whole month with the phone ringing like twice a day to now twice every five minutes. It's been insane.
John Long: We're a hot item. That's for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right.
John Long: That's right. Well we got a lot of stuff going on, of course. You know, summer is on top of us and the Mississippi homemaker volunteers are going to be on campus next week. And then the weekend after that is Congress. So we've got a lot going on for sure. And then what really got me was I had a national shooting sports committee meeting yesterday and somebody said, "How many weeks are we out now from the national championship?" And somebody said, "Five." And I thought, oh my goodness, five weeks until the end of June. Then we're looking at state invitationals, so it's a lot of stuff going on in a short amount of time. Co-op, we got co-op.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, co-op.
John Long: Yep.
Cobie Rutherford: Then just so many events going on this summer. My wife and I were trying to look at some dates for a possible vacation and John, I don't know that it's going to happen this year. It is wild.
John Long: I don't know who we had a vacation last. It's rough. You know, the corporate guy, he didn't even say anything about PADs. We'll be on the road with PADs, too.
Cobie Rutherford: Yep. That's going to be fun.
John Long: Yeah, it will.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. All of our... And that ties into what we're talking about today, all times management, leadership, all these things kind of go hand in hand together. And I'm kind of excited about our topic today.
John Long: Yeah, me too. Me too.
Cobie Rutherford: The past couple of podcasts or past three or four, however many we've done now, we've talked about kind of content area. We talked about safety, we talked about the youth livestock programs, we've talked about ATV safety. And now we're kind of getting into the youth development content. I think leadership's one of the best skills that we teach 4-H'ers.
John Long: So when we're talking about leadership, when it's with 4-H, what does that really mean to you? How do you see that?
Cobie Rutherford: Well, I think when I think about leadership, my favorite leadership quote just really defines the whole concept of leadership and leaders very well. And it's by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and it's, "A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus, but a molder of consensus." Trying to get everybody on the same page, being an influencer, being someone who others look up to, but kind of keeping your power in check, I think.
John Long: Right, right. And that's very important because a lot of times, you know, adults have that problem, right? Keeping a lot of things in check. But I think to me one of the things that 4-H teaches, the young people to give back. I'll use a big word, contributory skill. And giving back to what's been given to them is really an awesome thing in my opinion. And I've seen young people start from very young age in 4-H and go all the way through, and to see them take leadership roles... And not necessarily in this terminal part of their 4-H career, it's supposed to go with them forever and even through the program. So you can see a lot of young people at a young age exhibiting leadership skills for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: That's exactly right. And I think about stages of leadership and think about where we want people to be through the 4-H program. You and I as extension educators, we want to make an impact on those children's lives and teach them, like you said, how to give back. But I think it's important as we talk about leadership to these kids that we teach them about leaving a legacy. What do you want to be remembered as? Even after, post 4-H, into adulthood, into your senior citizen years and even posthumously, what is going to be that thing that people remember about you? And I think that's where really good leaders stand apart from people who don't take leadership roles. And I think that's also another misconception. I think that everybody has a potential to be a leader, just because you're not in the forefront of something or a project, you still have an ability to provide leadership to a certain aspect of a team or to a certain aspect of a contest or something like that. So I think it's pretty cool.
John Long: Yeah, I agree. You was talking about quotes, I wish I'd have brought... It's on my wall in my office and it's by... And I'm going to really slaughter this, but it was from General MacArthur and he said that a soldier's job is not to destroy, but to rebuild. And that when he... And, again, I'm slaughtering this and I'm going to get to the point in a minute. But he said that he didn't really want to be remembered by his son for all of the achievements that he made in his military career, what he wanted his son to remember was the time that he spent with him. And I thought that was just so powerful and such a... I don't know, it brought it all into context about what a great leader really focuses on as the important things and doesn't let the small things get them drugged down, or defeats. There's another one I have, excuse me, on my wall that's by Winston Churchill that says, "Success is defined by repeatedly being defeated, yet not losing enthusiasm." And I think a good leader does that for sure, too. Because it can't be downtrodden by no means for that. But-
Cobie Rutherford: That's exactly right. You know, even in these 4-H contests we've talked about so many times, we talk about in all contests we applaud participation first of all. You get up there and you participate, you do the public speech, you do the demonstration, whatever it is, you're a winner just by getting up there and competing because most people don't. But at the end of the day, there's always a first prize winner, a second place winner and third place winner. And where I think that the whole leadership development really begins is when you don't win first place, going back and competing again and trying it again the next year or trying to improve your skills. To me leadership is not something you're born with it or it's not really something that is inherited, it's your ability to get back up when you fall down. And as, almost, a road of continuous improvement. You don't, I don't think, ever reach a pinnacle in your leadership development. You keep working harder, you try to become a different leader. You try to motivate and inspire people in different ways as you get older.
John Long: Well, I've got to tell you this little factoid that I heard when I was listening to another podcast and actually today, and it was on United States presidents. And I'm a big history buff, I did not know this at all. But that George Washington's mother was a loyalist.
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: And could you imagine that household with him trying to create a country, be a leader, and having to face that difficulty, you see. So that's very true. That's very true. And I think that it's important to learn that you're not going to please everybody. I think that's another thing a leader has to realize is that... What was Lincoln's favorite quote? We're doing a quote of quotes today.
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: What you can't please all the people some of the time or something like that, you know? But the fact is is you're not going to be able to make everybody happy.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right.
John Long: And learning that is another good quality, I think, of a leader.
Cobie Rutherford: Absolutely. And I think that's where a lot of people with different personalities struggle with things. If you're taking the Myers Briggs test and trying to figure out what type of personality you have or what [crosstalk 00:08:58]-
John Long: That's what I did my PhD on.
Cobie Rutherford: Is it really?
John Long: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: Well so I-
John Long: That and other things, but...
Cobie Rutherford: I've taken that test probably four or five times now and you know, surprisingly... Well, you're probably not surprised. I'm two standard deviations above the mean for an extroversive, being an extrovert. And then so really one thing I've had to work on since high school, really, is toning it back, dialing it in some, trying to be more introverted when I'm just dying to yell out.
John Long: Right, right.
Cobie Rutherford: And I think that that self awareness is a big part of leadership, knowing what your abilities are, knowing that for me it's being too much for people to handle sometimes. Because I like to chat, I like to talk, I can get distracted very easily, I can get others distracted easily. And a lot of people don't really operate well under that type of leadership. So I've had to try to dial that in some.
John Long: What do you think I am, an extrovert or an introvert?
Cobie Rutherford: I would say you're extroverted.
John Long: You would be incorrect.
Cobie Rutherford: Really?
John Long: I have test introverted every time.
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: And that was one of the things I think too, that you don't really know because a lot of, I would say, 4-H'ers that I have seen that were through the years, like I was saying, that we're introverts. How they, through public speaking and different projects where they were... And not to say forced, but when they put themselves in that situation, they really found out that they could actually get up and speak in front of people.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, exactly.
John Long: And that's a testimony to what 4-H does for young people, in my opinion. I mean that's... The proof is in the pudding when you do that.
Cobie Rutherford: You know, when you can change your personality, they call that emotional intelligence.
John Long: Oh really?
Cobie Rutherford: So for you, me thinking that you're an extrovert, that must indicate that you have a high level of emotional intelligence. That you're very intone with what your personality is and how you can overcome that.
John Long: Nah, it's been a struggle. It's been a struggle. But I think I have gotten a little bit better through the years. I definitely... I remember it, and this is crazy, believe it or not, it was really a struggle to even talk on the telephone. I called people that I didn't know, I could not stand it. So big secret is, is John is an introvert, but, again, I can function and I think that that's part of it. I mean, it's not a bad thing.
Cobie Rutherford: No, absolutely not.
John Long: And I think, kids get hung up, especially with the fact of being during those formative years, that common thread that runs through those ages is that they're prone to periods of low self esteem. And when they have those moments, it's almost like saying, "Well, you know, it must be something wrong with me." No, it's just who you are and it's not anything to be ashamed of, you just have to learn who you are and be who you are and by that you are who you are. And now let me ask you this. Do you think every person is a leader?
Cobie Rutherford: So I think that that's a tough one because I-
John Long: We're bordering on opinion here, I know.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. So I think that, in theory, everyone can take on a leadership role if they choose to. So in whatever it is, I think that some people are better at being a follower than a leader. And Lord knows we need people, the worker bees, that can take direction that don't necessarily want the spotlight or be in the the center of everything. So, you know, I think that's kind of a loaded question. I think people can be if they want to be, but if not, there's more room for followers than there are leaders, I guess.
John Long: Right. And we'll give you that. You know, I talked about being a history buff.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: Did you know that Napoleon, when he was retreating from Russia, he got out of his carriage and was walking beside his men and his men were totally just angry. They did not think he was supposed to be, a man of his position should not be out there. And he was walking with a common soldier. That's strange when you think of him. But I don't know, I think it's like you said, it's important that we have those that are willing to do the work. But you know a really good quality that I think a leader exhibits, is being able to get down in the trenches with the worker bees, or whatever you want to call [inaudible 00:13:44] and doing the same thing.
Cobie Rutherford: Oh, absolutely.
John Long: I always thought that if you felt like that you were... I would never ask somebody to do something I wouldn't do myself, you know, that kind of thing?
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, I agree.
John Long: But yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like that question I ask, is who hunts? And I say, who hunts, raise your hand, and you may have half the class raised their hand and others saying, "No, I don't hunt. I never been hunting." And I said, well what happens when you get hungry? You go to hunting a hamburger-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, sure.
John Long: Or you go to hunt for a sale at a store. So can everybody be a good leader? I agree with you, I think that the ability to lead in some capacity is there, but it may not... It may be like Myers-Briggs, it may be stronger on one end than it is the other, for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, that's right. And I think a lot of it's based on your own drives and your own motivations and ambitions. I think about what 4-H help... I consider myself to be a leader, I guess. And I think I really got my start in being interested leadership through 4-H in my elementary school program, in fifth grade. I was elected the club president in my fifth grade class, Ms. Anderson's homeroom. So that's kind of the-
John Long: Shout to Ms. Anderson.
Cobie Rutherford: Yes, shout out to Ms. Ruth Anderson I had in elementary school. But you know that was my first interaction with leadership and then from there, after that, it was kind of expected that I was going to run for 4-H president because I kind of liked it, I kind of liked leading the meetings. And with my project, livestock, we talked about that a lot. You know sometimes cows, steers, whatever they are, can be the dumbest animals in the whole world and teaching them how to do what you want them to in the show ring, you're actually practicing a leadership skill without even knowing it. And it's patient, compassion, understanding, all those different things that you learned from that dumb hamburger on legs, walking burger, I guess. And it's kind of cool how that stuff all comes back into play. How do shooting sports or safety promote leadership?
John Long: Well, I think that it's... And again, like we've talked before, 4-H is 4-H, it's youth development by teaching life skills. We developed that child by teaching life skills. It does not matter if it is a cow or a firearm or a bow and arrow. The thing that we have to remember is, is that is only the instrument used to teach the life skill. It is all headed in the same direction. We're all teaching the same thing, just the method may be a little different based on the instrument or tool that's used. So I would say in 4-H safety, leadership really... I tell you what is really cool and I love it and I've seen it more than once, is to see somebody, a young person, that might be struggling on the line and another young person sees that and steps up and says, "Hey, let me see if I can help you."
John Long: And, I mean, it's pretty moving to see that because you just... I don't know if we just get stuck in this stereotype that kids are just selfish and they only think about themselves and... But they're not like that, you know? And, again, I think that's a testimony to the program. There's just something different about 4-H, and that sounds vague but it's not, but you can tell a difference when a young person has been exposed to a positive learning environment like 4-H does. I think that provides an opportunity for those leadership characteristics to really grow because that's the ground, that positive experience that we give them with something that they're interested in. I think that just provides that real fertile environment for them to grow.
John Long: And the result of that is you're going to see those opportunities to lead. Other times I've seen, of course, with the 4-H safety ambassador program, with a child that goes through that, they want to be an ambassador. They want to be at the forefront of promoting 4-H safety. And I've seen them reach out to other young people, as well as adults, and assist them. So there's just a lot about 4-H that when we talk about citizenship, we talk about leadership and things like that, where these young people are actually giving back to the community. That is just... It's absolutely amazing. And I know I've probably [inaudible 00:18:44] I need a jar for every time I've said amazing, but I'll put a quarter in it and go buy a hamburger. But it's the truth. It really-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. I totally agree. I think that these 4-H'ers are getting so many skills and there's no value on that. I mean, it's something we can't measure very effectively, but we know we're making a difference.
John Long: You know what's exciting to me, is the fact that what an awesome opportunity. And I am kind of jealous because we do have interaction with young people, in certain circumstances we do. We get to deal with Congress, like we've got coming up, or we may be at a 4-H safety event or PAD. We do have a little interaction with young people, but those volunteers and agents that are out there on the ground with them, doing the program, they have such an awesome opportunity that I am jealous of at times because they get to see the full effect of it. They get to see that child change. They are a change agent in that young person's life.
Cobie Rutherford: They're the catalyst.
John Long: That's the cat... Hey that's good. Isn't that like the triangle or no, that's the... What is that in the heat, in chemistry? You know what I'm talking about?
Cobie Rutherford: Oh, yeah...
John Long: Yeah, it's-
Cobie Rutherford: I'm removed from that.
John Long: Yeah, now you've got me off on topic now. It's getting close to my coffee time. But yeah, and they get to see that part of the process and see that young person grow. It is an awesome, awesome opportunity. And I wish more people would get involved. And if you are to be that competent, caring adult in that young person's life, you change that person. It's like you can... I guarantee you... Like you just mentioned your teacher, we all have teachers that we remember for good things and it's because they invested in our life.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, exactly.
John Long: And it's life changing. We never forget them. So if you want a monument to your life, you be a teacher of some type or a person that is a mentor or involved with a young person in a positive way.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. Well, yeah, there's... I wonder what we're going to talk about next, John? This leadership thing, this time flew.
John Long: I know.
Cobie Rutherford: We've already talked 20 minutes and I think we just barely skimmed the surface of-
John Long: We may have to do a part two or something.
Cobie Rutherford: We may have to, to be continued.
John Long: That's right. Well, we may have an opportunity to have a young person in here and they can tell us by their own mouth what 4-H has done for them and how it's changed their life, too.
Cobie Rutherford: I think that sounds like a great opportunity for us to bring in at 4-H Congress next week.
John Long: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well we are going to be seeing everybody there and having a big time and we look forward to if anybody hears this by the time Congress rolls around. We'll see you on the grounds and out and about, but if we don't, we'll see you next year.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. If you're listening to our podcast and want to give John or I a shout out, we'd be appreciative of that. See if people are listening. My email address is [email protected] and John's is-
John Long: Same as his, same as Cobie's.
Cobie Rutherford: First and last name... john.long.
John Long: You can send on the bad email to Cobie-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And he doesn't have to show it to me.
Cobie Rutherford: So that sounds good. Well tune in next time to 4-H-4-U-2, and always look forward hearing from you.
John Long: Oh yeah.
Announcer: Thanks for joining us for 2-H-4-U-2. For more information, please visit extension.msstate.edu and be sure to subscribe to our podcast. 4-H-4-U-2 is produced by the Mississippi State University extension service, office of agricultural communications.
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By Mississippi State Extension 4-HDr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford take a look at the 4-H Leadership program
Transcript:
Announcer: This is 4-H-4-U-2, a podcast from the Mississippi State University extension service promoting forage programs and positive youth development. Here now, your host, Dr. John Long and Cobie Rutherford.
John Long: All right, well welcome to 4-H-4-U-2, again, and Cobie, how are you today?
Cobie Rutherford: Doing fantastic John. It's been a busy, fast week. Gosh.
John Long: It's like you'd kicked an ant bed in the 4-H office, right?
Cobie Rutherford: I know, we go the whole month with the phone ringing like twice a day to now twice every five minutes. It's been insane.
John Long: We're a hot item. That's for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right.
John Long: That's right. Well we got a lot of stuff going on, of course. You know, summer is on top of us and the Mississippi homemaker volunteers are going to be on campus next week. And then the weekend after that is Congress. So we've got a lot going on for sure. And then what really got me was I had a national shooting sports committee meeting yesterday and somebody said, "How many weeks are we out now from the national championship?" And somebody said, "Five." And I thought, oh my goodness, five weeks until the end of June. Then we're looking at state invitationals, so it's a lot of stuff going on in a short amount of time. Co-op, we got co-op.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, co-op.
John Long: Yep.
Cobie Rutherford: Then just so many events going on this summer. My wife and I were trying to look at some dates for a possible vacation and John, I don't know that it's going to happen this year. It is wild.
John Long: I don't know who we had a vacation last. It's rough. You know, the corporate guy, he didn't even say anything about PADs. We'll be on the road with PADs, too.
Cobie Rutherford: Yep. That's going to be fun.
John Long: Yeah, it will.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. All of our... And that ties into what we're talking about today, all times management, leadership, all these things kind of go hand in hand together. And I'm kind of excited about our topic today.
John Long: Yeah, me too. Me too.
Cobie Rutherford: The past couple of podcasts or past three or four, however many we've done now, we've talked about kind of content area. We talked about safety, we talked about the youth livestock programs, we've talked about ATV safety. And now we're kind of getting into the youth development content. I think leadership's one of the best skills that we teach 4-H'ers.
John Long: So when we're talking about leadership, when it's with 4-H, what does that really mean to you? How do you see that?
Cobie Rutherford: Well, I think when I think about leadership, my favorite leadership quote just really defines the whole concept of leadership and leaders very well. And it's by Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and it's, "A genuine leader is not a searcher for consensus, but a molder of consensus." Trying to get everybody on the same page, being an influencer, being someone who others look up to, but kind of keeping your power in check, I think.
John Long: Right, right. And that's very important because a lot of times, you know, adults have that problem, right? Keeping a lot of things in check. But I think to me one of the things that 4-H teaches, the young people to give back. I'll use a big word, contributory skill. And giving back to what's been given to them is really an awesome thing in my opinion. And I've seen young people start from very young age in 4-H and go all the way through, and to see them take leadership roles... And not necessarily in this terminal part of their 4-H career, it's supposed to go with them forever and even through the program. So you can see a lot of young people at a young age exhibiting leadership skills for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: That's exactly right. And I think about stages of leadership and think about where we want people to be through the 4-H program. You and I as extension educators, we want to make an impact on those children's lives and teach them, like you said, how to give back. But I think it's important as we talk about leadership to these kids that we teach them about leaving a legacy. What do you want to be remembered as? Even after, post 4-H, into adulthood, into your senior citizen years and even posthumously, what is going to be that thing that people remember about you? And I think that's where really good leaders stand apart from people who don't take leadership roles. And I think that's also another misconception. I think that everybody has a potential to be a leader, just because you're not in the forefront of something or a project, you still have an ability to provide leadership to a certain aspect of a team or to a certain aspect of a contest or something like that. So I think it's pretty cool.
John Long: Yeah, I agree. You was talking about quotes, I wish I'd have brought... It's on my wall in my office and it's by... And I'm going to really slaughter this, but it was from General MacArthur and he said that a soldier's job is not to destroy, but to rebuild. And that when he... And, again, I'm slaughtering this and I'm going to get to the point in a minute. But he said that he didn't really want to be remembered by his son for all of the achievements that he made in his military career, what he wanted his son to remember was the time that he spent with him. And I thought that was just so powerful and such a... I don't know, it brought it all into context about what a great leader really focuses on as the important things and doesn't let the small things get them drugged down, or defeats. There's another one I have, excuse me, on my wall that's by Winston Churchill that says, "Success is defined by repeatedly being defeated, yet not losing enthusiasm." And I think a good leader does that for sure, too. Because it can't be downtrodden by no means for that. But-
Cobie Rutherford: That's exactly right. You know, even in these 4-H contests we've talked about so many times, we talk about in all contests we applaud participation first of all. You get up there and you participate, you do the public speech, you do the demonstration, whatever it is, you're a winner just by getting up there and competing because most people don't. But at the end of the day, there's always a first prize winner, a second place winner and third place winner. And where I think that the whole leadership development really begins is when you don't win first place, going back and competing again and trying it again the next year or trying to improve your skills. To me leadership is not something you're born with it or it's not really something that is inherited, it's your ability to get back up when you fall down. And as, almost, a road of continuous improvement. You don't, I don't think, ever reach a pinnacle in your leadership development. You keep working harder, you try to become a different leader. You try to motivate and inspire people in different ways as you get older.
John Long: Well, I've got to tell you this little factoid that I heard when I was listening to another podcast and actually today, and it was on United States presidents. And I'm a big history buff, I did not know this at all. But that George Washington's mother was a loyalist.
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: And could you imagine that household with him trying to create a country, be a leader, and having to face that difficulty, you see. So that's very true. That's very true. And I think that it's important to learn that you're not going to please everybody. I think that's another thing a leader has to realize is that... What was Lincoln's favorite quote? We're doing a quote of quotes today.
Cobie Rutherford: I know.
John Long: What you can't please all the people some of the time or something like that, you know? But the fact is is you're not going to be able to make everybody happy.
Cobie Rutherford: That's right.
John Long: And learning that is another good quality, I think, of a leader.
Cobie Rutherford: Absolutely. And I think that's where a lot of people with different personalities struggle with things. If you're taking the Myers Briggs test and trying to figure out what type of personality you have or what [crosstalk 00:08:58]-
John Long: That's what I did my PhD on.
Cobie Rutherford: Is it really?
John Long: Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: Yeah.
Cobie Rutherford: Well so I-
John Long: That and other things, but...
Cobie Rutherford: I've taken that test probably four or five times now and you know, surprisingly... Well, you're probably not surprised. I'm two standard deviations above the mean for an extroversive, being an extrovert. And then so really one thing I've had to work on since high school, really, is toning it back, dialing it in some, trying to be more introverted when I'm just dying to yell out.
John Long: Right, right.
Cobie Rutherford: And I think that that self awareness is a big part of leadership, knowing what your abilities are, knowing that for me it's being too much for people to handle sometimes. Because I like to chat, I like to talk, I can get distracted very easily, I can get others distracted easily. And a lot of people don't really operate well under that type of leadership. So I've had to try to dial that in some.
John Long: What do you think I am, an extrovert or an introvert?
Cobie Rutherford: I would say you're extroverted.
John Long: You would be incorrect.
Cobie Rutherford: Really?
John Long: I have test introverted every time.
Cobie Rutherford: How about that?
John Long: And that was one of the things I think too, that you don't really know because a lot of, I would say, 4-H'ers that I have seen that were through the years, like I was saying, that we're introverts. How they, through public speaking and different projects where they were... And not to say forced, but when they put themselves in that situation, they really found out that they could actually get up and speak in front of people.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, exactly.
John Long: And that's a testimony to what 4-H does for young people, in my opinion. I mean that's... The proof is in the pudding when you do that.
Cobie Rutherford: You know, when you can change your personality, they call that emotional intelligence.
John Long: Oh really?
Cobie Rutherford: So for you, me thinking that you're an extrovert, that must indicate that you have a high level of emotional intelligence. That you're very intone with what your personality is and how you can overcome that.
John Long: Nah, it's been a struggle. It's been a struggle. But I think I have gotten a little bit better through the years. I definitely... I remember it, and this is crazy, believe it or not, it was really a struggle to even talk on the telephone. I called people that I didn't know, I could not stand it. So big secret is, is John is an introvert, but, again, I can function and I think that that's part of it. I mean, it's not a bad thing.
Cobie Rutherford: No, absolutely not.
John Long: And I think, kids get hung up, especially with the fact of being during those formative years, that common thread that runs through those ages is that they're prone to periods of low self esteem. And when they have those moments, it's almost like saying, "Well, you know, it must be something wrong with me." No, it's just who you are and it's not anything to be ashamed of, you just have to learn who you are and be who you are and by that you are who you are. And now let me ask you this. Do you think every person is a leader?
Cobie Rutherford: So I think that that's a tough one because I-
John Long: We're bordering on opinion here, I know.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah. So I think that, in theory, everyone can take on a leadership role if they choose to. So in whatever it is, I think that some people are better at being a follower than a leader. And Lord knows we need people, the worker bees, that can take direction that don't necessarily want the spotlight or be in the the center of everything. So, you know, I think that's kind of a loaded question. I think people can be if they want to be, but if not, there's more room for followers than there are leaders, I guess.
John Long: Right. And we'll give you that. You know, I talked about being a history buff.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: Did you know that Napoleon, when he was retreating from Russia, he got out of his carriage and was walking beside his men and his men were totally just angry. They did not think he was supposed to be, a man of his position should not be out there. And he was walking with a common soldier. That's strange when you think of him. But I don't know, I think it's like you said, it's important that we have those that are willing to do the work. But you know a really good quality that I think a leader exhibits, is being able to get down in the trenches with the worker bees, or whatever you want to call [inaudible 00:13:44] and doing the same thing.
Cobie Rutherford: Oh, absolutely.
John Long: I always thought that if you felt like that you were... I would never ask somebody to do something I wouldn't do myself, you know, that kind of thing?
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, I agree.
John Long: But yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like that question I ask, is who hunts? And I say, who hunts, raise your hand, and you may have half the class raised their hand and others saying, "No, I don't hunt. I never been hunting." And I said, well what happens when you get hungry? You go to hunting a hamburger-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, sure.
John Long: Or you go to hunt for a sale at a store. So can everybody be a good leader? I agree with you, I think that the ability to lead in some capacity is there, but it may not... It may be like Myers-Briggs, it may be stronger on one end than it is the other, for sure.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, that's right. And I think a lot of it's based on your own drives and your own motivations and ambitions. I think about what 4-H help... I consider myself to be a leader, I guess. And I think I really got my start in being interested leadership through 4-H in my elementary school program, in fifth grade. I was elected the club president in my fifth grade class, Ms. Anderson's homeroom. So that's kind of the-
John Long: Shout to Ms. Anderson.
Cobie Rutherford: Yes, shout out to Ms. Ruth Anderson I had in elementary school. But you know that was my first interaction with leadership and then from there, after that, it was kind of expected that I was going to run for 4-H president because I kind of liked it, I kind of liked leading the meetings. And with my project, livestock, we talked about that a lot. You know sometimes cows, steers, whatever they are, can be the dumbest animals in the whole world and teaching them how to do what you want them to in the show ring, you're actually practicing a leadership skill without even knowing it. And it's patient, compassion, understanding, all those different things that you learned from that dumb hamburger on legs, walking burger, I guess. And it's kind of cool how that stuff all comes back into play. How do shooting sports or safety promote leadership?
John Long: Well, I think that it's... And again, like we've talked before, 4-H is 4-H, it's youth development by teaching life skills. We developed that child by teaching life skills. It does not matter if it is a cow or a firearm or a bow and arrow. The thing that we have to remember is, is that is only the instrument used to teach the life skill. It is all headed in the same direction. We're all teaching the same thing, just the method may be a little different based on the instrument or tool that's used. So I would say in 4-H safety, leadership really... I tell you what is really cool and I love it and I've seen it more than once, is to see somebody, a young person, that might be struggling on the line and another young person sees that and steps up and says, "Hey, let me see if I can help you."
John Long: And, I mean, it's pretty moving to see that because you just... I don't know if we just get stuck in this stereotype that kids are just selfish and they only think about themselves and... But they're not like that, you know? And, again, I think that's a testimony to the program. There's just something different about 4-H, and that sounds vague but it's not, but you can tell a difference when a young person has been exposed to a positive learning environment like 4-H does. I think that provides an opportunity for those leadership characteristics to really grow because that's the ground, that positive experience that we give them with something that they're interested in. I think that just provides that real fertile environment for them to grow.
John Long: And the result of that is you're going to see those opportunities to lead. Other times I've seen, of course, with the 4-H safety ambassador program, with a child that goes through that, they want to be an ambassador. They want to be at the forefront of promoting 4-H safety. And I've seen them reach out to other young people, as well as adults, and assist them. So there's just a lot about 4-H that when we talk about citizenship, we talk about leadership and things like that, where these young people are actually giving back to the community. That is just... It's absolutely amazing. And I know I've probably [inaudible 00:18:44] I need a jar for every time I've said amazing, but I'll put a quarter in it and go buy a hamburger. But it's the truth. It really-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. I totally agree. I think that these 4-H'ers are getting so many skills and there's no value on that. I mean, it's something we can't measure very effectively, but we know we're making a difference.
John Long: You know what's exciting to me, is the fact that what an awesome opportunity. And I am kind of jealous because we do have interaction with young people, in certain circumstances we do. We get to deal with Congress, like we've got coming up, or we may be at a 4-H safety event or PAD. We do have a little interaction with young people, but those volunteers and agents that are out there on the ground with them, doing the program, they have such an awesome opportunity that I am jealous of at times because they get to see the full effect of it. They get to see that child change. They are a change agent in that young person's life.
Cobie Rutherford: They're the catalyst.
John Long: That's the cat... Hey that's good. Isn't that like the triangle or no, that's the... What is that in the heat, in chemistry? You know what I'm talking about?
Cobie Rutherford: Oh, yeah...
John Long: Yeah, it's-
Cobie Rutherford: I'm removed from that.
John Long: Yeah, now you've got me off on topic now. It's getting close to my coffee time. But yeah, and they get to see that part of the process and see that young person grow. It is an awesome, awesome opportunity. And I wish more people would get involved. And if you are to be that competent, caring adult in that young person's life, you change that person. It's like you can... I guarantee you... Like you just mentioned your teacher, we all have teachers that we remember for good things and it's because they invested in our life.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, exactly.
John Long: And it's life changing. We never forget them. So if you want a monument to your life, you be a teacher of some type or a person that is a mentor or involved with a young person in a positive way.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. Well, yeah, there's... I wonder what we're going to talk about next, John? This leadership thing, this time flew.
John Long: I know.
Cobie Rutherford: We've already talked 20 minutes and I think we just barely skimmed the surface of-
John Long: We may have to do a part two or something.
Cobie Rutherford: We may have to, to be continued.
John Long: That's right. Well, we may have an opportunity to have a young person in here and they can tell us by their own mouth what 4-H has done for them and how it's changed their life, too.
Cobie Rutherford: I think that sounds like a great opportunity for us to bring in at 4-H Congress next week.
John Long: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well we are going to be seeing everybody there and having a big time and we look forward to if anybody hears this by the time Congress rolls around. We'll see you on the grounds and out and about, but if we don't, we'll see you next year.
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah, no doubt. If you're listening to our podcast and want to give John or I a shout out, we'd be appreciative of that. See if people are listening. My email address is [email protected] and John's is-
John Long: Same as his, same as Cobie's.
Cobie Rutherford: First and last name... john.long.
John Long: You can send on the bad email to Cobie-
Cobie Rutherford: Yeah.
John Long: And he doesn't have to show it to me.
Cobie Rutherford: So that sounds good. Well tune in next time to 4-H-4-U-2, and always look forward hearing from you.
John Long: Oh yeah.
Announcer: Thanks for joining us for 2-H-4-U-2. For more information, please visit extension.msstate.edu and be sure to subscribe to our podcast. 4-H-4-U-2 is produced by the Mississippi State University extension service, office of agricultural communications.