On this episode, Kris and I talk about the work of Gregory Bateson, schizmogenesis, breaking the barriers of language, hypnosis, the play nature of paranormal phenomena, the magic of dingos, A Pickle for the Knowing Ones, ecstatic states in art, and the pain of initiation.

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David: @brbjdo

Kris: @KrisSaknussemm

The music and mixing for this episode was performed by ous/li.