Matthew Clausen and I recorded this podcast on a dark and breezy night, while sitting atop the Great Wall of China. We had just finished a long day of trekking on the wall, starting at the popular restored section of Mutianyu, and ending at "wild" Jiankou. We had a fantastic time reminiscing his week-long visit to Beijing, culminating in this outdoor adventure. We also discussed rock climbing, our views on what it means to travel, and much more.