In this episode, we meet Professor Nevil Pierse, Research Professor at the University of Otago Wellington, where he has spent more than two decades building New Zealand's evidence base on homelessness.

Nevil is a statistician by inclination — and the first to say that the most important data point is never a number. It is the story behind it. His work with the People's Project in Hamilton tracked 400 people who had been sleeping rough on the city's streets, and found that before anyone thought to house them, they had collectively generated more than 200,000 recorded interactions with government services. Not hidden people. Not hard to reach. A total systems failure.

In this episode, Nevil talks about what the data actually shows about who is homeless in New Zealand, why housing is the most effective mental health intervention available, and what Finland's experience proves about what's possible when political will matches the evidence. He also makes the case for why counting everyone matters — and what we stand to lose if we stop.

We'd like to thank Professor Nevil Pierse for taking the time to speak with us for this episode.

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The CHA Hub Podcast is sponsored by our Founding Partner, Westpac New Zealand.