Is the Supreme Court’s decision on tariffs a declaration of independence?? Only three columnists at the New York Times can say. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This week, Rhiannon and Michael talk to two immigration lawyers about what it’s like to practice under the second Trump administration, the unprecedented uncertainty their clients face, why habeas petitions are taking off, the freaks who become ICE lawyers and ICE judges, and why there’s actually…reasons to hope?? 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Was she assembled in a lab by the Heritage Foundation? Summoned from beyond the veil by a MAGA demonologist? Or is she simply an emergent feature of Florida’s political swamp? Learn the history of your very angry Attorney General, Pam Bondi. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What does “and” REALLY mean?  

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The fourth amendment protects against unlawful searches and seizures…unless, of course, the search is just a friendly survey from your local armed immigration officer!

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

5-4 answers your questions about whether ICE agents can be prosecuted, why it’s worth knowing your rights, if the president can cancel the midterms and…whether there’s revolutionary potential in tax evasion. As always, this is not legal advice™. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

How the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was dismantled. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Alli Rodgers. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

The history of why we needed (and still need) the Voting Rights Act of 1965. 

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.]

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons with help from Alli Rodgers and Zachary Clary. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

https://immigrationequality.org/

bit.ly/donatepym2025

https://www.palestinianyouthmovement.com/

https://brigidalliance.org/donate-in-2025/

https://trees.org/

https://chuffed.org/project/158294-for-those-who-have-no-one-to-campaign-for-them

https://1804books.com/products/witness-to-the-hellfire-of-genocide

https://www.iwrising.org/donate

https://give.foodbanknyc.org/

tinyurl.com/freeleqaafund

https://wandaalstonfoundation.org/

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To get exclusive Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at fivefourpod.com/support.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On Twitter, find Peter @The_Law_Boy and Rhiannon @AywaRhiannon.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

A movie about a dipshit who prays his way to the Supreme Court. It’s worse than you imagine.

If you're not a 5-4 Premium member, you're not hearing every episode! To hear this and other Premium-only episodes, access to our Slack community, and more, join at www.patreon.com/fivefourpod.

5-4 is presented by Prologue Projects. This episode was produced by Andrew Parsons. Leon Neyfakh provides editorial support. Our website was designed by Peter Murphy. Our artwork is by Teddy Blanks at Chips NY, and our theme song is by Spatial Relations. Transcriptions of each episode are available at fivefourpod.com 

Follow the show at @fivefourpod on most platforms. On BlueSky, find Peter @notalawyer.bsky.social, Michael @fleerultra.bsky.social, and Rhiannon @aywarhiannon.bsky.social.

Our Sponsors:
* Check out Quince: https://quince.com/FIVEFOUR


Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands