On this episode of People of Tech, Charles is joined by David Swan.

David is the Director for the Cyber Intelligence Defence Centre for the [Centre for Strategic Cyber Space and Security Science](https://cscss.org/CS/). In his own words, he is their "spook" running their intelligence opperations.

Find out what David thinks of the cyber security industry presently, his opinion on so called "white hat" hackers and why he sees his 16 year old son as "quite an interesting cat".