In previous episodes of this podcast, we've established that rituals are important. But why? And how is it connected to our own nature, and the nature around us? Sasha Sagan has written a book all about the subject. It would be hard to imagine a more 'Humanize Me' book, and by such a gifted communicator! In this conversation, Bart Campolo talks with Sasha about the kinds of rituals we have, how they operate for secular people, encouraging deeper thinking about why we mark the occasions we do, and how to create good conversations around them. Sasha Sagan is a writer and speaker living in Boston. She shares another feature with Bart: a famous dad. Carl Sagan, the popular cosmologist and science communicator, was a huge influence in Sasha's life, and they talk about him near the end of their conversation. Her book, 'For Small Creatures Such as We', can be found on Amazon.