Three years ago to the week, Michael Dowd talked with Bart on this podcast about our modern way of life, sustainability and the future of civilization. When the coronavirus pandemic hit, Bart could think of nobody he wanted to talk to about it more than Michael, so he's back! In this conversation, Bart and Michael talk about their shared sense that the pandemic will be followed by an economic recession or even depression, and that it signals the beginning of the end of our current way of life.