Elizabeth Dutro and Jeff Frank join us to talk about the schools in their -- in schools' -- complicated relations to trauma (as both cause and ameliorator) and to loss, particularly in the conditions of an ongoing pandemic.  "Learning loss" is, after all, not the only kind of loss that matters.

For more of Elizabeth's work, see her book.

For more of Jeff's work, see his book, as well.

For the episode transcript, click here.