Jon and Liz sit down with Sam Pink to discuss his new book Ice Cream Man and Other Stories, and his other books, which are all awesome.

We also discuss how everyone needs some rat in them, character development and finding the singular quality in others, the pros and cons of self publishing, working in restaurants, Mary Robison's Why Did I Ever, comedy and how to write funny, writers who complain about writing, Sam's approach to revision, why calling books nihilistic is dumb, and a hell of a lot more.