Matt speaks with Chris De Banks, founder of Not Saints - the UK’s only not-for-profit record label supporting musicians in recovery - to explore the powerful intersection of music and sobriety. From navigating the drug-fuelled 90s music scene to building a sober creative community, Chris shares his journey through addiction, recovery, and the founding of Not Saints. Together, they unpack the myths that link creativity with substance use, challenge the glamorisation of addiction in pop culture, and spotlight how stigma can be dismantled through storytelling, sober events, and authentic musical expression. 

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🎵 Music: “Jonathan Tortoise” by Christopher Tait (Belle Ghoul / Electric Six)

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🎙️ Facilitator: Matthew Butler
🎛️ Producer: Robbie Lawson
🏢 Network: ReNew