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66: Katherine MacLean, PhD – Neuroscientist, Groundbreaking Psychedelics Researcher, and Author Shares her Extraordinary Journey and New Book Midnight Water
Dr. Katherine MacLean is a neuroscientist, writer, research scientist, mother, and adventure-seeker. Dr. Maclean thought she would study anthropology, religion, or pre-Med when she first started undergraduate school. She had many interests including genetics, spirituality, and the brain. She recalls “I took an anthropology of religion course, and that’s when I first learned about Shamanic and spiritual ceremonies that could trigger changes in the brain that created visions that created the experience of real-life entities.” At the time, she also took psychology courses and learned there was a rhesus macaque lab in the basement. She wanted to find out what those monkeys were doing in the basement so with the help of her undergrad mentor, Yale Cohen, she was able to corral all of her disparate interests and combine them with her passion to forge a new research path that combined her work on mindfulness research while earning her doctorate at UC-Davis and her psilocybin research at Johns Hopkins University where she completed her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology.
In this podcast interview, Dr. MacLean brings us back to her undergraduate and graduate experiences and shares the critical events and people that led her to obtain her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Neuroscience and attend UC-Davis for her PhD in Research Psychology as well as attending Johns Hopkins University for her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology. She shares her experience visiting graduate schools and how she mentioned her interest in studying psychedelics “just to see how they would respond.” At the time, serious research on psychedelics was not happening so Dr. MacLean combined her interests and passion to establish a legitimate line of groundbreaking research studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. Her research suggests that psychedelic medicines can enhance openness to new experiences and promote mental health and emotional well-being throughout the life span.
Dr. MacLean co-founded and directed the first center for psychedelic training and education in New York, was featured in the New Yorker article entitled “The Trip Treatment by Michael Pollan, and her TED Talks have been viewed nearly fifty thousand times. She was one of the lead researchers on the Shamatha Project, which was a groundbreaking study of the effects of intensive meditation on psychological and brain function. When she was a research follow and faculty member at Johns Hopkins, she apprenticed with and was supervised by two of the world’s top psychedelic therapists – Bill Richards, PhD, and Mary Cosimano, LSW – learning how to effectively and safely support people before, during, and after high-dose psychedelic experiences.
When reflecting on your journey and her professional career, Dr. MacLean shares practical advice for those “climbing the ladder of success.” She states, “I might have been very happy as a tenure track faculty member at Johns Hopkins. But, the thing that I want to impress upon young psychology students is something that a medical doctor told me when I was deciding whether to leave Hopkins, ‘sometimes as you’re climbing the ladder of success, you get to the top and realize it’s on the wrong wall and you have to get all the way back down and put the ladder up on a different wall and start from scratch.’”
Dr. MacLean spent the last two decades studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. Her professional journey takes an unexpected detour following the death of her sister from cancer. She left her faculty position and decided to travel the world. In her new book, Midnight Water: A Psychedelic Memoir, she shares her story of grief and redemption. During our discussion she shares more about her book, why she wrote it, and the important takeaways we should learn from it. She refers to her own personal journey as one where she climbed halfway up the ladder but realized that she was working all the time, working weekends, feeling stressed out, and then having a significant life-changing moment which left her feeling very anxious when thinking about all of the other things she still wanted to do with her life (having children, enjoying life, etc.). She said “there’s no way I wanted to work all weekend, not have any children, not be able to have a fun life alongside my dream. So, I temporarily gave up my dream to pursue life and what came out of that was this book.”
Given the current state of psychedelic research, Dr. MacLean would advise students who are interested in the field to consider getting a medical degree along with their PhD “because you will not regret it when you are one of the only doctors in the room who also understands this research and how these drugs work in the brain.” She also offers advice to aspiring psychology students who are just starting out on their academic journey. She states, “find the research that’s fascinating and talk to the people who are doing it, you know, because you never know where that’s going to lead.”
Connect with Dr. Katherine MacLean: Twitter | Instagram | Youtube | FacebookConnect with the Show: Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn
https://vimeo.com/875102592
Interests and Specializations
Dr. Katherine MacLean received her doctorate in research psychology and completed her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology. She is an expert studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, spirituality, emotional well-being, and brain function. Her groundbreaking research on psilocybin and personality change is well-known in the field.
Education
Bachelor of Arts (BA), Psychology & Neuroscience (2003); Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH.Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), Research Psychology (2009); University of California – Davis, Davis, CA.Postdoctoral Fellowship in Psychopharmacology (2012); Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD.
Other Sources and Links of Interest
Dr. Katherine Maclean: @AmazonDr. Katherine Maclean: Open Wide and Say Awe (Ted Talk)Dr. Katherine Maclean: Befriending the Beloved Mystery with Magic MushroomsDr. Katherine Maclean: The Psychedelic Art of Dying: Magic Mushrooms & The Final Meltdown
Podcast Transcript
00:13 BradleyWelcome to the Master’s in Psychology Podcast where psychology students can learn from psychologists, educators, and practitioners to better understand what they do, how they got there, and hear the advice they have for those interested in getting a graduate degree in psychology. I'm your host, Brad Schumacher, and today we welcome Dr. Catherine MacLean to the show. Dr. MacLean is a neuroscientist with expertise in studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. She earned her bachelor's degree in psychology and neuroscience from Dartmouth College. Dr. MacLean then earned her PhD in Research Psychology from the University of California, Davis. Her groundbreaking research on Silo Sibin and personality change suggests that psychedelic medicines can enhance openness to new experiences and promote mental health and emotional well-being throughout the lifespan. Today, we will learn more about her academic and professional journey, more about her current project, and hear about her recent book, Midnight Water: A Psychedelic Memoir. Dr. McLean, welcome to our podcast.
01:25 KatherineThanks for having me. This is a great way to spend my, the end of my Labor Day.
01:30 BradleyWell, I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy. Well, actually today Labor Day is nice. I know that you were busy earlier on doing another recording. So, I thank you for being on our podcast, first of all. And to start off, if you've seen some of our podcasts, you know that we kind of go through your journey. First, we start talking about your academic journey and then your professional journey. So, I noticed that you received your bachelor's degree in psychology and neuroscience from Dartmouth College. Can you tell us more about your journey and how you became a neuroscientist and, ultimately, what motivated you to pursue this career path?
02:09 KatherineSure. Well, I thought that I was going to study either anthropology or religion. And before that, I thought that I might do pre-Med as well. And very shortly into the pre-Med track, I think it was a genetics class. I just said, you know what this is too. You know, there's even too nerdy for me and that's it. You know, pre-Med is too nerdy for me, so I'm going to let some of the other workaholic kids do that track. And I took a number of other courses in anthropology, religion. I was. I was fascinated by how humans expressed their spirituality, their beliefs. I was fascinated by Buddhism, in particular, because it's very, it's a kind of a very mind-oriented religion. And then I took an anthropology of religion course, and that's when I first learned about Shamanic and spiritual ceremonies that could trigger changes in the brain that created visions that created the experience of real-life entities. It seemed to kind of capture all of my interests all in one. And at the time I decided to start taking psychology courses, I took about a year's worth, and then I found out there was a rhesus macaque lab at the basement of the site building. And I was like, whatever it takes, I need to figure out what those monkeys are doing in the basement. And so that brought me to my undergrad mentor, Yale Cohen and I would say that it was Yale Cohen who finally took all of my disparate interests. My passion for these very kind of weird, wacky topics and directed that energy into the path that eventually landed me in grad school.
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By Bradley Schumacher
3.9
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Dr. Katherine MacLean is a neuroscientist, writer, research scientist, mother, and adventure-seeker. Dr. Maclean thought she would study anthropology, religion, or pre-Med when she first started undergraduate school. She had many interests including genetics, spirituality, and the brain. She recalls “I took an anthropology of religion course, and that’s when I first learned about Shamanic and spiritual ceremonies that could trigger changes in the brain that created visions that created the experience of real-life entities.” At the time, she also took psychology courses and learned there was a rhesus macaque lab in the basement. She wanted to find out what those monkeys were doing in the basement so with the help of her undergrad mentor, Yale Cohen, she was able to corral all of her disparate interests and combine them with her passion to forge a new research path that combined her work on mindfulness research while earning her doctorate at UC-Davis and her psilocybin research at Johns Hopkins University where she completed her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology.
In this podcast interview, Dr. MacLean brings us back to her undergraduate and graduate experiences and shares the critical events and people that led her to obtain her Bachelor of Arts in Psychology and Neuroscience and attend UC-Davis for her PhD in Research Psychology as well as attending Johns Hopkins University for her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology. She shares her experience visiting graduate schools and how she mentioned her interest in studying psychedelics “just to see how they would respond.” At the time, serious research on psychedelics was not happening so Dr. MacLean combined her interests and passion to establish a legitimate line of groundbreaking research studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. Her research suggests that psychedelic medicines can enhance openness to new experiences and promote mental health and emotional well-being throughout the life span.
Dr. MacLean co-founded and directed the first center for psychedelic training and education in New York, was featured in the New Yorker article entitled “The Trip Treatment by Michael Pollan, and her TED Talks have been viewed nearly fifty thousand times. She was one of the lead researchers on the Shamatha Project, which was a groundbreaking study of the effects of intensive meditation on psychological and brain function. When she was a research follow and faculty member at Johns Hopkins, she apprenticed with and was supervised by two of the world’s top psychedelic therapists – Bill Richards, PhD, and Mary Cosimano, LSW – learning how to effectively and safely support people before, during, and after high-dose psychedelic experiences.
When reflecting on your journey and her professional career, Dr. MacLean shares practical advice for those “climbing the ladder of success.” She states, “I might have been very happy as a tenure track faculty member at Johns Hopkins. But, the thing that I want to impress upon young psychology students is something that a medical doctor told me when I was deciding whether to leave Hopkins, ‘sometimes as you’re climbing the ladder of success, you get to the top and realize it’s on the wrong wall and you have to get all the way back down and put the ladder up on a different wall and start from scratch.’”
Dr. MacLean spent the last two decades studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. Her professional journey takes an unexpected detour following the death of her sister from cancer. She left her faculty position and decided to travel the world. In her new book, Midnight Water: A Psychedelic Memoir, she shares her story of grief and redemption. During our discussion she shares more about her book, why she wrote it, and the important takeaways we should learn from it. She refers to her own personal journey as one where she climbed halfway up the ladder but realized that she was working all the time, working weekends, feeling stressed out, and then having a significant life-changing moment which left her feeling very anxious when thinking about all of the other things she still wanted to do with her life (having children, enjoying life, etc.). She said “there’s no way I wanted to work all weekend, not have any children, not be able to have a fun life alongside my dream. So, I temporarily gave up my dream to pursue life and what came out of that was this book.”
Given the current state of psychedelic research, Dr. MacLean would advise students who are interested in the field to consider getting a medical degree along with their PhD “because you will not regret it when you are one of the only doctors in the room who also understands this research and how these drugs work in the brain.” She also offers advice to aspiring psychology students who are just starting out on their academic journey. She states, “find the research that’s fascinating and talk to the people who are doing it, you know, because you never know where that’s going to lead.”
Connect with Dr. Katherine MacLean: Twitter | Instagram | Youtube | FacebookConnect with the Show: Twitter | Facebook | LinkedIn
https://vimeo.com/875102592
Interests and Specializations
Dr. Katherine MacLean received her doctorate in research psychology and completed her postdoctoral fellowship in psychopharmacology. She is an expert studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, spirituality, emotional well-being, and brain function. Her groundbreaking research on psilocybin and personality change is well-known in the field.
Education
Bachelor of Arts (BA), Psychology & Neuroscience (2003); Dartmouth College, Hanover, NH.Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), Research Psychology (2009); University of California – Davis, Davis, CA.Postdoctoral Fellowship in Psychopharmacology (2012); Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore, MD.
Other Sources and Links of Interest
Dr. Katherine Maclean: @AmazonDr. Katherine Maclean: Open Wide and Say Awe (Ted Talk)Dr. Katherine Maclean: Befriending the Beloved Mystery with Magic MushroomsDr. Katherine Maclean: The Psychedelic Art of Dying: Magic Mushrooms & The Final Meltdown
Podcast Transcript
00:13 BradleyWelcome to the Master’s in Psychology Podcast where psychology students can learn from psychologists, educators, and practitioners to better understand what they do, how they got there, and hear the advice they have for those interested in getting a graduate degree in psychology. I'm your host, Brad Schumacher, and today we welcome Dr. Catherine MacLean to the show. Dr. MacLean is a neuroscientist with expertise in studying the effects of mindfulness meditation and psychedelics on cognitive performance, emotional well-being, spirituality, and brain function. She earned her bachelor's degree in psychology and neuroscience from Dartmouth College. Dr. MacLean then earned her PhD in Research Psychology from the University of California, Davis. Her groundbreaking research on Silo Sibin and personality change suggests that psychedelic medicines can enhance openness to new experiences and promote mental health and emotional well-being throughout the lifespan. Today, we will learn more about her academic and professional journey, more about her current project, and hear about her recent book, Midnight Water: A Psychedelic Memoir. Dr. McLean, welcome to our podcast.
01:25 KatherineThanks for having me. This is a great way to spend my, the end of my Labor Day.
01:30 BradleyWell, I appreciate you taking the time out of your busy. Well, actually today Labor Day is nice. I know that you were busy earlier on doing another recording. So, I thank you for being on our podcast, first of all. And to start off, if you've seen some of our podcasts, you know that we kind of go through your journey. First, we start talking about your academic journey and then your professional journey. So, I noticed that you received your bachelor's degree in psychology and neuroscience from Dartmouth College. Can you tell us more about your journey and how you became a neuroscientist and, ultimately, what motivated you to pursue this career path?
02:09 KatherineSure. Well, I thought that I was going to study either anthropology or religion. And before that, I thought that I might do pre-Med as well. And very shortly into the pre-Med track, I think it was a genetics class. I just said, you know what this is too. You know, there's even too nerdy for me and that's it. You know, pre-Med is too nerdy for me, so I'm going to let some of the other workaholic kids do that track. And I took a number of other courses in anthropology, religion. I was. I was fascinated by how humans expressed their spirituality, their beliefs. I was fascinated by Buddhism, in particular, because it's very, it's a kind of a very mind-oriented religion. And then I took an anthropology of religion course, and that's when I first learned about Shamanic and spiritual ceremonies that could trigger changes in the brain that created visions that created the experience of real-life entities. It seemed to kind of capture all of my interests all in one. And at the time I decided to start taking psychology courses, I took about a year's worth, and then I found out there was a rhesus macaque lab at the basement of the site building. And I was like, whatever it takes, I need to figure out what those monkeys are doing in the basement. And so that brought me to my undergrad mentor, Yale Cohen and I would say that it was Yale Cohen who finally took all of my disparate interests. My passion for these very kind of weird, wacky topics and directed that energy into the path that eventually landed me in grad school.