Shownotes

The language we use often reflects the widely accepted socio-cultural values, norms, and beliefs that society holds, including roles men/women and non binary people play. For as long as we know language has been used to undermine people making them seem less competent, confident and places an expectations on what people can aspire too. The constant use of such language reinforces assumptions.  

E.g. Assumptions that all members of a category (Director) share a gender or that all members of a gender share a characteristic (women prefer to look after children) 

E.g. Using gendered pronouns/nouns when you don’t know the gender or using he/him/man as the default 

However, language can also be used as powerful tool to help reshape culture and challenge stereotypes. In this episode of The Elephant in the Room podcast I spoke with Parijat Ghosh and Souparno Chatterjee from PRADAN on the journey and learnings from the past 10 months to building a more equitable and inclusive organisation. 

I am super proud to have been invited by PRADAN to support the organisations in unravelling the layers and discovering who they are as an organisation and the gap that exists with who they aspire to be. In the last 10 months, I have run numerous workshops, listening exercises, audits, and had people share 100s of examples on how our culture, upbringing, the books we read, the movies we see, our lived experiences colour our usage of language. 

We are nearly at the end of the discovery phase, the next phase will be about mindfulness, and putting all the learning into action - in how we use language to engage with our peer group, with teams, with people on the field, the communities we work with, donors, governments, in the manner in which we write our reports. The measure of success is not that everyone will suddenly be inclusive, but that most people are conscious of the impact of their words, are willing to learn and build an inclusive organisation. 

And most importantly it is important to remember that language is not static, it changes and evolves every single day; like it has done since the start of spoken language many moons ago. 

Want to know more about the why and what of the gender sensitive communications initiative at PRADAN - listen here 👇🏾👇🏾

Memorable passages from the transcript

👉🏾 Thank you so much Sudha for inviting us. 

👉🏾Good morning Sudha. And thanks for bringing us here and it's a great opportunity to speak with you on this initiative that we have started in the organisation. So looking forward to the conversation. 

👉🏾I am Parijat, presently I work with PRADANs research and advocacy team. And as far as my interest are is concerned, I am interested in Adivasi livelihood because we are working ound the questions related to Adivasi livelihood, I'm also interested in the subject of gender equality both within the community, with whom we work and also within the organisation.

👉🏾 I am also a member of the steering group that is integrating PRADANs initiative towards making the workplace better for women as of now and I'm hoping that it will talk more about inclusiveness. 

👉🏾 I joined as a development apprentice and after a brief stint, I joined the operations unit. And since 2013, I started working in communications and ever since I've been communicating about PRADAN. I love communicating about PRADAN. 

👉🏾 Let me first start with how PRADAN embarked on the journey, why PRADAN took up this whole initiative, not only the gender-sensitive communication but the whole initiative of making PRADAN a better place for women,. So the skewed percentage of women actually has been a concern in PRADAN for a very long time. So I joined in 2004, and since then in almost every annual retreat, this issue was highlighted. And finally in 2014, that then formally instituted a scoping study to understand the reasons for the same.

👉🏾 Why this ratio is so skewed? What are the struggles women go through, and what are the hindering factors for continuing in PRADAN, areas of gaps? So based on that understanding or findings some strategies were instituted. One is women caucus, for all the women in PRADAN. who act as a pressure group, as well as a support for each other. And a regular gender audit within the organisation in all work units, so that we understand the status, present status of the situation and find the gaps and plan according to that. And the third thing was we designed a curriculum for the newcomers, the newcomers are called development apprentice in PRADAN. For them, we designed a gender guide, which talks about gender equality within the organisation. 

👉🏾 At some point in time, these were kind of all independent initiatives, there was a need to integrate all those so that all these initiatives, whether we're moving towards the desired direction or not. So In 2017 our steering group was formed and the role of the steering group was to kind of see the impact of all these initiatives, the points of integration etc... So based on the experience so far SG worked on developing a strategy. They came up with a strategy paper last year in 2020/21. And in this strategy, the importance of gender-sensitive communication came up as a very important area. Because all the time we work with human beings, both outside, inside with community, we talk and communicate all the time and that is our work. Therefore our communication actually says a lot about us - who are we, our gender biases, our gendered relationship with the organisation and community we work with colleagues, and our stance towards gender equality. And therefore we started work towards sensitising ourselves about this gender sensitive communication and inclusive language and we started taking help from you.

👉🏾 What Parijat said is absolutely, that's how it has been in PRADAN. But addition to what she said, I think that PRADAN has been working essentially for women empowerment. We found that when we reach out to the poorest of the poor, these marginalised sections, smallholder farmers, they have been put aside from the mainstream walks of development 

👉🏾 But if you look at the condition of the women irrespective of their age cycle, the life cycle, you see that they are at a more disadvantageous position in comparison to the men folk.

👉🏾 So there is poverty within poverty. But when you look at the people who are talking about these issues, who are identifying these issues, who are working with those women are men, mainly, majorly. if you look at the percentage that Parijat was referring to, that is heavily skewed towards men. And at the same time, it's not about just women empowerment, but you're talking about women's leadership in community-based organisations, how women will lead the process of change. who are talking about that, who are guiding that process of change, again set of men. 

👉🏾 And the organisation, which is talking about women empowerment day in and day out is led by men since its inception. The ED and various other key positions in the management have been heavily occupied by men. So what do you do to change this situation and adjust the situation, address this situation in terms of the gap of what is being preached and what is being actually practised. So we kind of realised that there is a gap and what is that gap and how do you address that gap. So that's how PRADAN thought of embarking on this journey of practising gender equality and thinking in terms of gender sensitivity inside the organisation, as well as outside the organisation.

👉🏾 Right. So, fortunately, as I shared earlier that in 2014, the leadership management unit, which is a top leadership node in PRADAN, that time it was called management committee, they decided to Institute this scoping study. So in the scoping study, they came up with a long report describing the reasons and also they came up with nine recommendations. the reasons were discussed, and then jointly we came up with these three-pronged strategies to initiate with, which shared earlier the caucus in a non formal space. Non-formal I'm saying because it is approved by the organisation, but it's not formal in that sense. So women are, I mean supposed to be encouraged at least in participating in caucus meetings and support each other and come up with issues and inform the organisation.

👉🏾 Similarly the gender audit in the formal space, formally to get feedback on what is the situation and orienting the newcomers from the beginning on the issue. So these three strategies were decided by the leadership. So in that sense, from the beginning officially we had a buy in that we are going to do this. 

👉🏾 But when we actually do something, then you can feel that resistance, for example, when women were going to the caucus meetings, so there will be comments like "So you are going to your complaint room.” “We are fearful so we cannot talk with you.”‘We cannot give you feedback because in caucus meetings you'll go and complain about that.”

👉🏾 But gradually we continued and probably the perception of PRADANites also that this is not about what we are thinking. I would not say that it is smooth yet but definitely the situation has improved a lot. They also contributed in identifying issues where policies need to be formulated. So in consultation we came up with new policies and all. So in that sense, it's a long process as I shared that the study was instituted in 2014 and now we are at 2022. So it has been quite a long journey and we can feel the gradual improvement, but obviously, we're not yet there.

👉🏾 I would say we have mixed kind of experience all of the options are applicable to our case, at some point in time or the other. There was a buy-in so there was a mandate from the organisation that we are going to do this. So in that sense, there was an official approval. But because we all are part of this society, which is patriarchal and hierarchical, so we have our inherent biases towards it and the way we respond that is also kind of, many of the time probably unconscious, but that creates a kind of culture. There were not really upfront pushback, but we had to put in a lot of energy and effort to do everything that is part of this gender-sensitive communication or in the overall initiatives. So probably that is one indicator that this is an indirect pushback. There is a group who will be very proactive and everything, but it is not true for the whole of the population.

👉🏾 Right. And I would say that the newcomers or the new generation is far more enlightened in this subject of inclusiveness and gender equality than those who are there for a long time and older, it is difficult for them to actually accept. I would say us, to actually accept that we to have too biases which makes sense biased or not so inclusive. 

👉🏾 So as there was kind of an organisational mandate that this has to happen. So there was no question of you know, official resistance towards that and I don't think anybody even think of doing that. People welcomed the first step, but as the various kinds of feedback that started pouring in after the gender audit process happened. After the women caucus started meeting on a regular basis, I don't think everyone was on the same plane or could take up the feedback and same spirit universally, across the organisation. 

👉🏾 Tacitly, you could always feel that there still exists some kind of a resistance or ridicule certain points that have come up or that people are trying to change certain aspects of behavioural manifestations. So for example, the toilets were not adequately clean earlier. And the women used to face a lot of issues So the women said that this is a problem, and we need to address this.

👉🏾 And nowadays, if you go to the field offices, you see toilets, which are remarkably clean with some notices"Don't waste water". And "Remember to flush the pot" after you use it, those kinds of very basic messages that you often get to see in public.

👉🏾 Now that they are maintaining it in a certain manner with some basic senses of hygiene and all they say"Have you visited the toilet? Have you seen how it is maintained these days? "Have you seen "how clean it is?" 

👉🏾 So that " is something which gives you a feeling that things are not done wholeheartedly. So, as Parijat said we are a product of patriarchy and that patriarchy unfortunately has been practised across generations, it has been practised not only by men, but women also have a major role to play, in ensuring that certain practices are sustained. We've kind of accepted these kinds of social behaviours or manifestations. And now when these also are getting challenged because of a woman caucus, because of gender audit. People are obviously a lot more uncomfortable to accept 

👉🏾 Which was hitherto being seen as a very normal life. And when that becomes a challenge that "no, this is actually not what you were supposed to do or the way you should be leading your life."

👉🏾 Then obviously there would be a pushback, but since again it is an organisation's decision that you have to introspect. You have to think through these basic things that people have started accepting So that there is a general sense of acceptance. 

👉🏾 Yeah. Sudha, underrepresented groups I mean in PRADAN we are not yet conscious about that. We have not started talking about that. As Souparno also shared that it is mostly around women and our binary understanding on gender, but not in terms of caste or class, or in terms of others who don't conform to this, binary understanding of gender. We are not openly talking about those sort of underrepresentation as of now, but I would share some of the examples of biases that women probably face.

👉🏾 For example one of the findings in the gender audit was that soft-spoken women are easily accepted within the organisation in comparison to those who are not so soft spoken. So then in meetings if the same point is shared by a woman colleague, that goes, unnoticed, but when the same thing is told by a man that gets attention.

👉🏾 Or if two colleagues, one of them was a man and one woman, the team up for, a particular work. Then there's a high possibility that most of the credit for the work would go to the man. And people will consult the man aback about the findings or outcome of the work, but not so much with the women and put in effort for that. I mean, almost all the women who are taking leadership roles, for example, team coordinators, They struggle a lot to get acceptance from their team. In both cases, if they are assertive, then they're told they are dominating. And if, if they're timid they're told to be not suitable for Leadership.

👉🏾 The situation is changing, but still if the themes like gender or SHG groups, nutrition, all those themes are mostly anchored by women. Whereas livelihood, FPOs these teams which are quote unquote masculine those are mostly anchored by men. Things are changing but more or less it is still like that. So there's a long list of such examples where you can actually sense that there are biases.

👉🏾There is a clear instance where this I think was shared in one of the gender audits that when they say about some ideas, when they share something in the larger group where there are men colleagues also, the possibility of getting heard and recognised and acknowledged for their viewpoints and basically taking them seriously has remained a struggle, a point of struggle for women colleagues.

👉🏾 When you are meeting some other stakeholder who is outside the organisation, external stakeholder, If that person is a man it is found that the person would speak to your other men colleague, rather than talking to you. Or for example if you were a team coordinator also, a woman team coordinator, they would prefer to listen to your male counterparts rather than listening to you or responding to them. PRADAN has taken up a very, very liberal stance and approach towards various lifecycle needs of a woman colleague. But despite that that’s a patriarchal expectation that being a woman or the mother, you are supposed to take care of the baby so it's the mother's responsibility. So that is an expectation she is having back home and at office, if she is trying to negotiate with her male colleagues that well I cannot do this job, or I cannot be available at this hour of the day, may I do this at some other time? Often leads to some kind of, either a confrontation or if not a confrontation, then those kinds of nuances come up that she's a woman so we can't expect her to do this. Therefore equality that you are expecting and you have got every right to expect at the workplace, often get jeopardised.

👉🏾 At the same time Sudha, let me tell you that there is also another side of the coin because over here we're talking about gender sensitivity, it's not about just women. Male colleagues also in the organisation and it is not only just for PRADAN, but outside, they are also having similar issues. It's your responsibility to run the family, or you are expected to take these many physical hardships, or you are expected to be good in finances and plan finance accordingly for the family. If you don't do that, if you are not being able to do that, what kind of man you are? You are not a man. 

👉🏾 So those kinds of notions exist in PRADAN also, but I'm not trying to equate but I'm just trying to bring it to people's notice that unconscious bias or these kinds of biases exist on both sides.

👉🏾I would say that this journey we embarked on an understanding gender sensitive communication that actually helped probably all of us those who were a part of the process. We have developed an appreciation and acceptance for the fact that all of us have our own unconscious biases and that impact our communication.

👉🏾 So none of us are actually fully kind of there. Creating that acceptance...