What happens when the “direct service” model—pull-out support, isolated practice, and heroic effort—doesn’t translate into real independence for students in real classrooms?

In this episode, Seth Fleischauer is joined again by Dr. Karen Dudek-Brannan—speech-language pathologist, executive functioning specialist, and host of the De Facto Leaders podcast—to talk about what breaks down when clinicians become the bottleneck, why generalization fails (especially with EF and social “read the room” skills), and how to build systems that scale beyond one specialist’s calendar.

Karen’s core argument is simple: even if schools had more money and more staff, direct sessions alone can’t carry the full weight of the cognitive + language demands students face. The answer isn’t “do more.” It’s design repeatable routines, simplify what works, and make it transferable—first to teachers, then to whole-building practices.

We dig into:

• Why executive functioning doesn’t generalize well from isolated support sessions into classrooms—especially “soft skills” like social executive functioning and real-time feedback loops.
• The clinical decision-making bottleneck: how highly skilled clinicians unintentionally make themselves irreplaceable (and exhausted) by re-inventing everything.
• Why burnout often isn’t about being busy—it’s about not feeling effective (and why “self-care as escape” doesn’t fix the core problem).
• Karen’s idea of “clinical containers”: a way to organize EF and language work so you can iterate without chaos, and document without pretending your system is “finished.”
• Change management in schools: don’t go nuclear. Build a minimum viable version, pilot with willing partners, and scale through phased rollout.
• The practical reality: teachers don’t need “one more thing.” They need support that fits existing workflows and solves problems in their language, not yours.

Lightning round

• Karen shares what she’s rethinking right now: micromanaging vs. scaffolding (when are you over-controlling, and when are you responsibly building capacity?).
• Her comfort-watch recommendation—surprisingly relevant to public-sector life: Parks and Recreation.
• We also surface a leadership tool Seth has been leaning on: The Coaching Habit (the “ask more, tell less” approach). (Leadership Foundations)

One actionable starting point (Karen’s):

If you want to shift from “I can’t possibly do building-wide influence” to actually moving the system: Create a non-negotiable block of weekly time to build the solution. The content of that block can change, but the container has to exist first.

Links and resources mentioned

• Dr. Karen Dudek-Brannan — main site + leadership resources (drkarendudekbrannan.com)
• De Facto Leaders podcast (De Facto Leaders)
• Dr. Karen Speech — language therapy + “containers” training (Dr. Karen Speech and Language)
• The Coaching Habit (Michael Bungay Stanier) – 7 questions framework (Leadership Foundations)
• Prior Make It Mindful context: Episode 50 with Karen (Executive Functioning Part 2) + Part 1 with Mitch Weathers (Organized Binder)
  • Organized Binder (Mitch Weathers) (Organized Binder)

Guest

Dr. Karen Dudek-Brannan is a speech-language pathologist and executive functioning specialist who helps clinicians and school teams build sustainable systems that improve transfer, reduce bottlenecks, and increase impact across the school day. (Dr. Karen Speech and Language)

About the sponsor

Support for Make It Mindful is brought to you by Banyan Global Learning, creating live, human-centered global learning experiences that help students use language in real contexts—through virtual field trips and international collaborations.

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