The guest of this episode is John Hattie, one of the world’s best-known and most widely read education experts. In our conversation with him, he explains the cornerstones and intentions of his Visible Learning approach. We also discuss several points of criticism that he received for his approach and how he developed it further based on the critique he faced. Furthermore, John also explicates the concept of intentional alignment and why the practice of this concept needs an ethical dimension in order not to be misused. Finally, he advocates a shift of perspective in education from autonomy towards responsibility.  

00:01:12 – What is Visible Learning? 

00:02:59 – On “Know thy impact” 

00:05:55 – On the impact of Visible Learning 

00:07:01 – The main critiques of the Visible Learning approach 

00:10:23 – On interpreting and building a story around data 

00:12:02 – On “What works best” 

00:14:37 – The relevance of self-knowledge in the Visible Learning approach 

00:16:38 – The Dodo Bird Verdict 

00:21:22 – Intentional alignment 

00:27:13 – How does a competent teacher become a good teacher? 

00:32:48 – On phronesis, Bildung and ResponsAbility 

00:36:32 – From autonomy towards responsiblity 

Between Theory and Practice – Questions for Reflection
How might the insights from this dialogue inspire your own practice? The following questions are intended to inspire further inquiry, whether explored individually or in conversation with colleagues, students, or peers.

1.  Throughout the conversation, John Hattie argues that what matters is not simply what we do, but how we think about what we do and the impact it has on others. Think of a recurring practice in your professional life. How do you know whether it is making the difference you hope for? 
2.  Towards the end of the dialogue, Hattie proposes replacing the language of autonomy with the language of responsibility. Consider a situation in your professional practice where you have considerable freedom to act. Rather than asking, “What am I free to do?”, what changes when you ask, “What does this situation—and the people involved—need from me?”

Literature:  

• Hattie, J. (2023): Visible Learning: The Sequel A Synthesis of Over 2,100 Meta-Analyses Relating to Achievement. New York, NY: Routledge. 
• Hattie, J. & Larsen, S. N. (2020): The Purposes of Education. A Conversation Between John Hattie and Steen Nepper Larsen. New York, NY: Routledge. 
• Hattie, J. & Clarke, S. (2019): Visible Learning: Feedback. New York, NY: Routledge.