In this episode of Make It Mindful, Seth talks with Dr. Grant Atkins and Dr. Caroline Miller — a researcher who studies how educational technology gets implemented and whether it works, and a former high school teacher who left the classroom just as generative AI was beginning to reshape how students write — about the current backlash against ed tech and what's actually driving it. The conversation takes place inside Seth's long-running professional learning community, which gives it a candor that more formal interviews rarely allow.

Together, Seth, Grant, and Caroline explore what's getting lumped together under "ed tech backlash" — social media, pandemic-era screen fatigue, and generative AI — and why those distinctions matter for the decisions teachers and administrators actually have to make. Early in the conversation, a detail surfaces that reframes the whole discussion: a twelve-year-old who told Seth she could tell when her teachers were using AI to write her feedback, and that it bothered her because she felt it was their job to do it themselves. They look at the research on when technology supports learning and when it substitutes for the human relationship at the center of teaching, and at the SAMR framework as a lens for evaluating whether any given tool is doing something genuinely new or just digitizing what was already there. The conversation also turns to what parents should be asking schools about technology use, and why that gets harder when it requires parents to examine their own screen habits alongside their children's. It closes on something Grant says plainly and without hedging: he doesn't think anyone knows yet what acceptable AI use looks like, and the conversation schools and families need to be having is still largely unfinished.

Key topics

• Ed tech backlash and what's behind it
• Social media, classroom tools, and AI as separate conversations
• SAMR framework for evaluating technology integration
• Teacher burnout and technology as workload support
• Parent-teacher communication about screen use
• AI disclosure and student-teacher trust
• Professional learning communities for educators

Links & Resources

• Brookings Institution report on AI and education — Rebecca Winthrop, Senior Fellow and Co-Director of the Center for Universal Education at Brookings, and co-author of a ~200-page report on AI risks and potential in education drawing on research from 50 countries. Note: Seth referred to her as "Rebecca Chapman" during the recording — her name is Rebecca Winthrop. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/a-new-direction-for-students-in-an-ai-world-prosper-prepare-protect/
• Justin Reich, MIT Teaching Systems Lab — researcher on ed tech hype cycles and lateral reading as a source-evaluation strategy: https://tsl.mit.edu/
• SAMR framework — Ruben Puentedura's model for technology integration in education (Substitution, Augmentation, Modification, Redefinition): https://www.3plearning.com/blog/connectingsamrmodel/
• Banyan Global Learning — Seth's organization, connecting K-12 classrooms to global peers through live virtual exchange programs: https://banyangloballearning.com/
• Equity Maps — participation-tracking tool for discussion-based classrooms: https://equitymaps.com/
• NoRedInk — adaptive writing and grammar platform: https://www.noredink.com/

Guest Bio: Dr. Grant Atkins

Dr. Grant Atkins is a researcher who studies professional development and the effectiveness of educational technology in classrooms. His work examines how ed tech tools are implemented at the school and district level and whether they achieve the learning outcomes they promise. He and Seth have been colleagues since meeting at Princeton University.

Guest Bio: Dr. Caroline Miller

Dr. Caroline Miller spent nearly a decade teaching advanced high school students before leaving the classroom as generative AI was beginning to reshape how students approach writing. Her teaching experience spanned discussion-based and writing-intensive classrooms, where she worked closely with students on critical thinking, source evaluation, and independent inquiry. She and Seth have been colleagues since meeting at Princeton University.

About the Host

About the Host: Seth Fleischauer is the founder of Banyan Global Learning and host of two podcasts: Make It Mindful: Insights for Global Learning and Why Distance Learning? Through Banyan, he designs live virtual programs that connect K-12 classrooms to global peers and expert facilitators — building the kind of structured, human-centered learning the podcast explores.