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In this episode Matt chats with Dr James Nobles from Leeds Beckett University about his journey into and use of systems thinking methodologies. They cover the ways in which we can and should think about the deeper layers to target, and where to start. 

Spanning the use of techniques in design, delivery, and implementation this is a conversation that will be of value to everyone who grapples with complex problems. This includes deeper dives into the Action Scales Model and Ripple Effects Mapping - it promises to be a load of fun!

Resources mentioned or discussed in the episode:

• The Systems Thinker website
• Complex Systems Frameworks Collection hosted by Simon Fraser University
• Link to James' paper on the Action Scales Model
• Also, links to papers on Ripple Effects Mapping and some learning on implementation of a systems approach in Glouchestershire

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