Pavel Panasjuk was running cleantech startups when Russian missiles started hitting Ukraine in 2022. He had zero defencetech experience—his only military knowledge came from reading history books as a hobby. Like many Ukrainian entrepreneurs, he and his co-founder Oleksandr started by buying medkits, cars, ammunition, and bulletproof vests to supply friends in the army. But after a few months, they shifted from buying supplies to building something. So they made a crazy bet—instead of fixing today's problems, they'd design autonomous submarines for the war 15 years from now. They asked "what comes AFTER Ukraine's surface drones dominate the Black Sea?" Their answer: AI-powered mini-subs that make tactical decisions independently underwater.

In this episode, Pavel shares how thinking ahead of the current war became Angler's strategy: why he believes human navies are finished and 90% of naval warfare will be autonomous by 2035, how Ukrainian startups move at 6-month cycles while watching Western contractors plan decade-long programs for systems that'll be obsolete before they launch, why European VCs frustrated him by acting "more like bankers lending money" instead of betting on breakthrough technology like American investors do—and the two things Ukrainian defence founders understand that Western founders are completely blind to: speed and affordability, because when your relatives live near the front line, you don't have time for 10-year development cycles.

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Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:28 What Angler Actually Does

02:32 From CleanTech to DefenceTech

03:39 February 2022: The Decision to Build for War

04:42 Finding Your Technical Co-Founder

18:25 Customer Discovery: Who Actually Buys This

20:31 The Pivot: Why We Went Hybrid

21:49 First Prototypes: Garage to Water Testing

30:40 How to Actually Raise from European VCs

36:50 Building Fast vs Building Perfect

42:35 Where to Incorporate as Ukrainian Founder

52:27 Getting to Revenue Without 5-Year Timelines

53:41 How Much Tech to Show Investors

55:29 What Ukrainian Founders Know About Speed

55:47 The 6-Month Product Cycle Rule

56:15 The Unsexy Thing That Kill you Company

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You will learn:

- Why Pavel talked to military customers BEFORE building anything

- The "cheap, good enough" rule that Ukrainian founders understand but Western defence companies completely miss

- How Pavel found his first investor after cold emails failed

- Why most defence tech pitches fail at the secrecy/disclosure balance

- Why 90% of naval warfare will be autonomous within 10 years

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Follow Martin Majercin on X:https://www.x.com/monsfrost

Follow Martin Majercin on LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/monsfrost/

Follow Pavel Panasjuk LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/ppanasjuk

Follow Angler on their website:https://anglerdrones.com

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