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A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 1 with Dr. Ursula Wilder [SpyCast]

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In honor of Women's History Month, please enjoy this episode of the International Spy Museum's SpyCast podcast featuring part 1 of Andrew Hammond's discussion with Dr. Ursula Wilder of the Central Intelligence Agency.

Summary

Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency. 


What You’ll LearnIntelligence
  • How psychology can be useful to national security
  • Historical examples of leadership analysis 
  • Leadership personality assessments & the Cuban Missile Crisis
  • Psychoanalytic theory and espionage 
    • Reflections
    • Human nature throughout history
    • History repeating itself 
      • And much, much more …
      Quotes of the Week

      “Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.”


      Resources SURFACE SKIM*SpyCasts*
      • Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023)
      • The North Korean Defector with Former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo (2023)
      • SPY@20 – “The Spy of the Century” with Curators Alexis and Andrew on Kim Philby (2022)
      • “How Spies Think” – 10 Lessons in Intelligence with Sir David Omand (2020)
        *Beginner Resources*
        • What is Psychoanalysis? Institute of Psychoanalysis, YouTube (2011) [3 min. video]
        • Psychologists in the CIA, American Psychological Association (2002) [Short article]
        • 7 Reasons to Study Psychology, University of Toronto (n.d.) [Short article]
          DEEPER DIVEBooks
          • Freud and Beyond, S. A. Mitchell (Basic Books, 2016)
          • Narcissism and Politics: Dreams of Glory, J. M. Post (Cambridge University Press, 2014)
          • The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements, E. Hoffer (Harper Perennial Modern Classics, 2010) 
          • Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln, D. K. Goodwin (Simon & Schuster, 2004)
          • Leaders, Fools, and Impostors: Essays on the Psychology of Leadership, M. F. R. Kets de Vries (iUniverse, 2003) 
            Primary Sources 
            • Charles de Gaulle to Pamela Digby Churchill (1942) 
            • Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat (1940)
            • Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant (1885)
            • Gettysburg Address (1863) 
            • House Divided Speech (1858)
            • Excerpt on Cleopatra from Plutarch's Life of Julius Caesar (ca. 2nd century AD)
            • Plutarch’s The Life of Alexander (ca. 2nd century AD) 
            • Appian’s The Civil Wars (ca. 2nd century AD) 
            • Virgil’s The Aeneid (19 B.C.E) 
              *Wildcard Resource*
              • On Dreams by Sigmund Freud (1901)
              • In this simplified version of the father of psychoanalysis’ seminal book The Interpretation of Dreams, you can get a small taste for Freudian philosophy. Freud believed that dreams were a reflection of the subconscious mind and that studying a person’s dreams can elucidate their inner wants and needs. What are your dreams telling you? 

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