Thanks to everyone who joined my conversation with Mary L Trump yesterday, who I greatly admire for her honesty, fearlessness and insight. This was an opportunity to get her reading of her uncle’s decision to reverse course on releasing the Epstein files (“Donald’s greatest terror is to be humiliated. He will move mountains in order to avoid that.”); whether this firestorm can be his undoing (“To be fair, why should he ever think he’ll be held accountable for anything? Because he hasn’t.”); and how this whole terrible chapter will end (“Donald is a nihilist…If he gets to that point, he will take down as many people as he possibly can. He’ll burn it all down.”).

Through it all, Mary, like me, is still looking ahead to a positive future. “We need people who are creative and imaginative and brave and are willing to do the kind of work we’ve never managed to do as a country,” she said.

I hope you’ll give our conversation a listen.

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