My next guest, Rebecca Mapes, is a multidisciplinary artist whose work currently comprises painting, jewelry, collage, and glass blowing. She began her creative career with Winden, a collection of fine, minimalist jewelry created in NYC. Ultimately, that brand evolved to incorporate high end hair accessories before Mapes spent three years developing a sustainable shampoo bar with a deeply considered and equally sustainable carrying case. In part one of this conversation, we deep dive through her entrepreneurial career trajectory, with an emphasis on the role debt has played in the various stages of her growth, as well as her thoughts today on an-all-or-nothing approach to sustainability as an independent business owner.