In this powerful episode of ConvHERsations with Kristie, Kristie Clayton sits down with Nathan Young—fractional COO and co-author of How to Be Second—to explore the concept of “second” not as a role, but as an identity.

Together, they unpack what it truly means to be a “second”: someone who sees the world through implication, who carries both extraordinary imposter syndrome and high competence, and who often supports others as their primary mode of operating. Nathan shares how “being second” is less about hierarchy and more about wiring—and how many seconds have mistakenly wrapped their identity in a title, rather than understanding it as who they are at their core.

They also dig into the challenge of using the word “second” in a culture that often equates it with being “less than.” Nathan explains why the term was chosen anyway, how it translates globally, and why being second should be viewed as a destination, not a stepping stone.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone navigating the tension between role and identity—especially those who have felt both essential and invisible at the same time.