Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect has left you feeling empty with little to give your own family? My guest has been down this road and will share his own story and what he's learned from his own experience.

Don Stinson is a podcast host, producer and author. As a dad coach he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.

You can connect directly with Don Stinson through

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/don-stinson-9362261b2/

Website: https://www.donstinson.net/

Special thanks to Zencastr for sponsoring The Fatherhood Challenge. Use my special link https://zen.ai/CWHIjopqUnnp9xKhbWqscGp-61ATMClwZ1R8J5rm824WHQIJesasjKDm-vGxYtYJ to save 30% off your first month of any Zencastr paid plan.

Transcription - A Dad’s Journey From Abandonment to Forgiveness

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Do you ever feel like parenting is hard because your past trauma of abandonment or neglect

has left you feeling empty or with little to give your family?

My guest has been down that road and he's here to help, so don't go anywhere.

Welcome to the Fatherhood Challenge, a movement to awaken and inspire fathers everywhere,

to take great pride in their role, and a challenge society to understand how important

fathers are to the stability and culture of their family's environment.

Now here's your host, Jonathan Guerrero.

Greetings everyone, thank you so much for joining me.

My guest is Don Stenson.

Don is a podcast host, producer and author.

As a dad, he is passionate about inspiring fatherhood by turning challenges into connections.

Don, thank you so much for being on the Fatherhood Challenge.

Jonathan, thanks so much for having me here.

Happy to be here.

Don, I got to ask, what is your favorite dad joke?

I heard once somebody tell me that they once worked in a bubblegum factory and they

got in trouble and their boss really chewed them out.

I love that one.

Yeah, a little bait and switch sometimes.

So Don, let's jump right to it.

You grew up experiencing abandonment as a child.

Would you please share that story with us?

Yeah, I grew up in Jolietta, Illinois, and you know, that's my hometown Jolietta, it's

about an hour outside of Chicago.

You know, it's what a lot of people call a very blue collar community in some sense there.

We've just got everybody out there.

And growing up, it was difficult for me because I had a, you know, mom and dad, but you know,

dad leaves when I'm about three years old.

And that was just kind of a pattern he had in his life.

And my mom tried to do the best that she could, but you know, she had her own struggles.

She had my brother when she was 15 years old and then I had a couple of sisters that she

had in between and then she had me when she was 40 years old from a separate marriage there.

So, you know, my mom, she grew up with her own abandonment and trauma issues as well.

And those things were kind of carried through.

So, you know, that's kind of the tough part is when you have dad leave when you're three,

you know, who fills that gap, right?

And I had a stepfather that came in eventually and, you know, he and I just kind of never clicked

in that sense, but, you know, looking back, I realized how much that community of Jolietta

just came forward to help me out.

And Jonathan, it was just so cool to think back about how many teachers and church leaders

and coaches came out to help me out and in various ways.

You know, sometimes it was, they were kind of noticing we didn't have enough food.

So, you know, I got some teachers sending me home with like a loaf of bread and some peanut

butter.

Other times I have teachers that just kind of understand maybe I'm needing some advice

at some point in my life for recommendations for jobs.

So, you know, that's kind of the short end of it there to me.

There's always that silver lining of like, hey, maybe dad wasn't there, but it was kind

of cool to have these almost surrogate and substitute parents that came out that were just

really, really concerned with making our community better and focusing on the kids in the community.

It's interesting. You had an experience of what I call surrogate dads in your life.

How did they save you and how important are they to every community?

Yeah, I think one of the ways that they came in to help me through was number one being

observant.

You know, it's those things.

When you ever see a kid that's maybe wearing clothes, they're a little bit too small for them

or maybe they're not as clean or kept up as much as they should be, you know, that's where

some of these people came in.

They were observant of that.

Sometimes it was talking to mom a little bit about those things.

Other times it was kind of politely speaking to me about maybe things I needed to do better,

things that I needed to take care of on my own.

So there's that part where there's a little bit of that direct help and that was more like

elementary school.

As I get older and my passions start to turn more towards music, I was a trumpet player

in my high school band.

That's where you start to get a little closer to people that as a kid you want to be like.

So I wanted to be like my trumpet teacher and I wanted to be like my high school band

directors and my junior high band directors and other mentors in town.

So in that sense when you start to develop that relationship, you know, sometimes you know,

at a distance as it should be, I think sometimes with teachers and students, it was interesting

to see how that feedback could be more specific, right?

So I started to get things from my high school band director about, hey, maybe we're focusing

less on workouts at his school right now.

We know that you need money for this.

Maybe we're focusing more on trumpet playing.

Maybe we're focusing more on, you know, he would line me up for gigs.

You know, what does that mean?

I know you're a musician as well, Jonathan.

It meant like I went from making, at that point in the 90s, I think it was $6 an hour at

the sandwich shop to my high school band director setting me up teaching trumpet lessons that

were like $15.5 an hour, you know, and I kind of look at that thing, right?

And as a high school, you're like, cool, I'm more than doubled my salary, quote unquote,

here.

But I remember looking back at those things and it was, it was a little more involved

with that.

He wanted me to get better at my craft at the same time.

He knew money was an issue.

He knew that I had to contribute to the household and, you know, had to actually help with some

of the household debt at that point.

So, you know, it's those fine little details of people that just come in and help.

You know, and then you understand some things.

You know, it's interesting when teachers open up.

I had a, you know, I talked about my father where he left when I was three, but I did see

him again one time.

And if I remember correctly, he was driving down the road in his van and I was in another

car and I look over and he kind of looks at me and then doesn't really say hi or anything.

I think we locked eyes and knew who each other was and that he just kind of kept driving,

right?

So, those are things that they kind of sit with you.

But you know, I'll never forget a high school English teacher that I had, Mike Riley.

And we had these papers that were due and it was really important for us to get these papers

in on Monday and they were going to be graded by Thursday or something.

And Mr. Riley comes in on that Thursday and goes, "Hey, I didn't get your papers graded,

you know?"

And we're just rumbling, and this is the first time I heard this from a man.

And Mike Riley goes, you know, it was my week with my boy, he was divorced.

He goes, "It was my week with my boy, he comes first, we had a chance for some extra time

last night, so all your papers, they'll be graded later.

I got to pay attention to my boy."

Wow.

And that one thing, you know, I think I heard that when I was 16 or 17.

And you know, we stopped grumbling.

We were like, "Oh, okay."

And that was one of those pieces of information you get when you're 16 or 17 and it kind of

has to sit and it has to stew for a little bit.

And then when you're in your 30s, all of a sudden, you know, there's this little flashback

to that and that, you know, was kind of piece of information I had early on, but that I wasn't

able to use until much later.

And it was something I'll always remember, you know, when it comes to my own children.

And when it comes to what really is the priority, right?

We all have obligations, we all things that we do have to get done.

No one wants to get fired from their job because they're not performing, but there's also

sometimes, you know, those places where if you can make the choice, you know, I know what

choice I'm making then.

You and I actually had very similar experiences.

So I'll back up to the whole surrogate father topic.

I remember, and I was taking, yes, we were both musicians.

We have that in common.

After one of my piano lessons, I got ready to leave and my piano teacher's husband came

up to me and he asked me, when's the last time you've changed the oil on your car?

And I couldn't remember and I told him I couldn't remember.

And he says, all right, well, it's time to get that done.

And he said, here's what you need.

So he made a list for me.

And he says, get these things.

After your next lesson, you're going to help me change the oil on my truck.

And then after that, we're going to change the oil on your car.

This led from there to being able to and learning how to do tune ups, learning how to do break

jobs, basic car care maintenance.

So he filled that gap.

He knew that was missing in my life.

And he didn't make a big deal out of it.

He just stepped in and filled that role.

And so to this day, I've been very conscious about making sure my own two sons have those

exact same skills and that they don't have to to miss those experiences.

The other thing was the poverty growing up without a lot of money around, short money for things

like class functions that everyone else in my class seemed to be able to afford.

But I couldn't.

Well, I had a cello teacher.

I was also in the orchestra as well.

I worked really, really, really, really hard to get into the small group orchestra.

It was more like a string quintet, but I worked really, really hard to get there because only

the best players could get into that group.

He was also very aware of the financial troubles that we had.

So he got me into the director got me into that group.

And on the weekends, we would play at weddings and funerals.

Sometimes we would play at churches.

And we would get paid for those gigs.

And it was very, very good money.

And I can't tell you how many times that saved me financially.

And I was always grateful that he saw that need and he looked out for me.

And it wasn't a handout.

I had to really work to get into that group.

But he made sure that that was recognized and gave me a good shot at it.

Yeah.

So to hit on that point with your own kids, I mean, that's where I often am, right?

I try to go back to the first time I learned some things.

We all learned something for the first time at one point, right?

I don't know when I learned to not put aluminum foil in the microwave, but I know not to.

There are those things.

But it's all those other little life lessons.

And I think about those things.

I don't know, coming to school and I remember I had a band director take me to the side and

I think I was wearing like black shoes and a brown belt.

But it happened to be one of those belts that had, you know, brown on one side black on

the other was like a reversible one, right?

Right.

And he's like, Hey, I have that same belt.

He's like, a little life less.

He's like, why don't you go to the bathroom and change this up?

You should match your belt, right?

And I'm sure somebody out there in the fashion world is going to be like, actually, like

whatever, right?

But it's those, those, so many of those little things that came from so many different areas.

You know, but you hit upon the work thing as well.

You know, did you, did you have this at all?

Because I, man, I really learned how to work and I learned that, you know, I could, I could

go make some money.

But it was, it was fascinating because I started playing my trumpet in churches when I was

12 and I started mowing lawns before that and I was, I was working constantly.

And I remember when I hit my mid 30s, I'm like, I couldn't shut that off.

Like it was, it was just like I could not stop working because that is what I have spent

most of my life doing.

And I kind of had to make some choices, you know, at that point to say, like, listen, maybe,

the point of my life is not just to work.

You know, maybe, maybe I can be a family member and a father and maybe even more useful to

myself by like, taking a little bit of this time off, but my gosh, that was hard to do to

stop that.

Yes, it's been instinctive and there are times I wonder if, in some ways, maybe that

has not been a survive, if it hasn't been a survival instinct just because of, of

growing up really, really poor.

I had one of, oh man, this, this was, this was a difficult situation.

When I graduated high school, my, my mom bought me a gateway 2000 laptop.

Right.

I remember those.

Yeah, this was 2000, two, sorry, 2002.

And you know, my parents, like they, they re, my mom and my stepdad, they really used their

credit cards a lot, like, really went, went deep into that.

And I'll never forget how like heartbreaking this was for my mom.

She was trying to do something nice for me and she buys this laptop and six months later

she comes to me crying.

She can't make the payments anymore.

She has to hand the payments off to me.

So now I am, wow, but I can't take back, you know, and she, like, this was, they weren't

cheap back then, you know, it's not like you can get a Chromebook today for a hundred bucks,

right?

And I remember being handed over with this like $2,000 debt, you know, at, at that point.

So, you know, it's, it's fascinating because those people we talked about, they, they came

in, in so many different ways at a college band director that I would often speak with

about finances.

You know, like, just the way my parents operated, everything was credit cards and it was a

normal thing to have a car payment, you know, and I remember him saying, like, you know,

dude, like, there's another way, you know, are you okay driving some like, beat her for a

while?

Like, yeah, I'm fine.

Well, I still drive one today.

It's, you know, and, you know, it's just, it was interesting with that, you know, those

type of things, just again, to hear that other way.

And sometimes that information was con, you know, contradicting what my mom would say, you

know, because my mom's like, no, you have a car payment.

You get the nicest car you can buy.

That's a way of life.

You know, then I hear somebody else saying, go buy something 10, 15 years old that you can

pay cash with today.

It will be fine, right?

So that's, you know, just those things where you kind of get confused about it when you're

younger, but the first time you try it out, it's like, all right, it's not that my parents

were bad in some sense.

This is just what, you know, they were, they were trying to do the best they could with what

they knew, you know, unfortunately, sometimes what they knew just kind of kept them in that

cycle.

I want to change direction a little bit.

How does a dad who's experienced abandonment from a father begin healing to a point where

he has something valuable to give his family?

To me, when I did it, effectively, it was a giant, sloppy mess, but it was necessary,

you know, so, you know, there were those questions I had of like, hey, what was wrong with me?

Why, why didn't he want me?

Why wouldn't he come around?

You know, is what my mom is saying is true, even though everybody else is like what they're

saying does line up with, you know, this picture that I'm getting of my dad.

You know, so there's that part.

There's the questioning stage of it.

And, you know, for me, it was, it was fascinating because I always had these questions about it.

Eventually, you know, I did get to that reality of like, he's gone, he's not coming back.

This is what it is.

And he was a very interesting character, my dad.

Really loved his name.

I posted about this recently in LinkedIn, but his name was Don.

He was married to my mom.

They got a dog, a golden retriever, and they named him Donnie.

A couple years later, I was born.

They named me Don.

So, the dog gets, you know, changed to pups.

You can read about it online.

Like, later on in my 30s, I found a brother, his name is Don, and it turned out that he's a brother

of my dad.

And so, this family tree is like a giant tumbleweaver, but a half brother from my dad and a different

wife that he had.

So, there's that, but this was a guy that, you know, was always skirting the law.

He was, you know, never paying child support.

He worked for a water softener company.

And at one point, got drunk and sold the water softener band for more beer money, his boss

bailed them out.

Just, again, just really interesting, fascinating things, right?

So, to that point, you have those questions.

You do have, for me, that point in my life where I had to work so hard to prove I wasn't him,

you know, and I thought I had to prove it to other people when they weren't really putting

me in that position.

It was me.

But, you know, there came to be a point, I remember, where when I found my brother and I have

a sister in California as well, I reconnected with them or connected with them.

I should say over the first time and we spoke and everyone was great and it was just really

fun.

And I want to say about two or three weeks later, I get a call from a number in town and

it's like this local assisted living apartment place.

It's in like a worst part of town.

And, you know, these people call, they say, "Hey, are you, is this Don Stinson?"

And I'm like, you know, I'm from Jolly, I sound like, "Well, who's asking?"

They said, "Well, you know, we looked up this number, it looks like you're related to one

of our residents, Donaldson's and senior, that just passed away as your father."

That was interesting.

So, a lot of that healing process looked like going to that apartment.

At that point, they had taken his body away, but, you know, they said I could go to the apartment

and I call them up.

I'm like, "I want to see it."

So, I went there, I get a key from the front office after showing my ID.

They told me, they said, "By the way, when you get up there, they said, "Want you rush

up there and I want you shut the door and lock it because you're dead owed quite a few

people money."

He was like selling his prescription pills to them and whatever else, okay?

Great.

So, I get up there and I just spend time in this apartment.

And, you know, it's interesting when I talk about how messy it was.

It's me sitting in this just awful apartment.

You know, he at that point was on oxygen, but I think he was still smoking and drinking a

lot.

He got a closet full of oxygen tanks.

We've got cigarette butts everywhere, places dirty, like whatever.

I sit down in this couch and I just have this conversation with myself.

And I think saying a lot of those things out loud, to me about, "Hey, this is my past.

Maybe I came from you or you're a part of me, but I really do have the control to go forward

and the control to be something different."

And also Jonathan, just that acceptance, it is going to be a harder for me.

There might be some things I never release, but I can at least shorten the time that I

get stuck in those places.

And I think having that conversation in that apartment really did help me out.

And it was, you know, it was interesting to do that.

I think it helped me release quite a few things, gave me permission to be myself and do what

I needed to do, not to prove to somebody else or myself that I wasn't this guy, but just

because this is what I want to do.

So I was there for a bit.

I was there for an hour and a half.

There were a couple knocks on the door.

I did not answer.

I remember when I left that apartment, locked it up real quick.

I heard a couple, "Hey, hey, and just ran to that stairwell and got out of there."

But that's kind of where to me, that catalyst was just cool.

Here's the next stage of your life.

I'm thinking about a lot of dads that may be in similar situations.

So this next question is really important.

And that is, what role has forgiveness played in giving you that freedom to be at your best

for your own family?

That hate and sadness and questioning, I mean, that, you know, confusion and hurt, like that

just eats you up.

And it takes up so much real estate in your head.

And I've heard before, like, "Hey, forgive, but don't forget."

And I understand that.

But it does take quite a bit of work to get to a place where your actions and your state

of mind aren't held up by anybody else.

And I mean anybody else.

And it's some hard work.

To me, it's like, I started with the little things, you know, like I wanted to get to a place

where I, my actions were completely independent of the outcome.

So if I walked up to you today and I just gave you $20 as a gift and you said thank you

and then you took out a lighter and just burned that $20 in front of me, like, "I don't

care.

I did my part."

That sounds a little bit like, "Wow, that's pretty extreme, right?"

But that was what I was trying to work towards, which is, you know, I am here to give and

to help out.

And I'm not in it for the thank you.

I'm not in it for, you know, the appreciation or anything else, whether it's my family members

or my students or people that I'm coaching, you know, it's like this is what I do.

And, you know, so then it kind of goes a little deeper, right?

Because now we're talking about somebody else's actions that, or in actions that have kind

of made your life more difficult, right?

So, you know, there is part of it where I have to look at it and go, "Hey, I've gotten some

really cool opportunities because I know how to work, right?

I have gone through some significant challenges."

So there is that part where I certainly appreciate that, you know, I don't think I'd be where

I am today without these challenges and without having just really crawl through some things,

you know, but there's that other part too where the baggage comes in with it, right?

So that's to me where the work kind of came in where it's like, "All right, if I'm going

to be appreciative of what I got out of this, then that's really what I do have to focus

on.

I do have to recognize, yes, you know, these things.

Did have an effect?

Cool.

I'm going to have to really dig deep and do some very, very difficult work.

But, you know, the other thing too, it's like, I look at my partner and I, we share six kids,

like, the reality is, I don't really have time anymore to be an effective partner and

parent and community member and have all of that stuff in my head.

You know, it takes away from what I meant to do and what I love to do.

How can dads learn more about what you're doing, get your books or get help from you?

I'm pretty active on the LinkedIn platform now.

So if they look me up on LinkedIn, Don Stinson, and if you look up anything with Don Stinson

Fatherhood, that stuff should come up there.

My website, Don Stinson.net, I think is a good way to contact me as well on there.

Just to make it easier if you go to thefatherhoodchallenge.com, that's thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

If you go to this episode, look right below the episode description, I will have all of

the links that Don just mentioned posted there for your convenience.

And Don, as we close, what is your challenge to Dad's listening now?

I want dads to go out and find another dad or guy to confide in and potentially vent to.

I don't want guys just venting to their, their life.

You know, I want guys to be there for each other.

And I think that part is so important.

You know, growing up and even now in my 40s.

I have no problem calling someone up and essentially saying, how do I parent?

You know?

I have this specific issue right now.

I need help with it.

This is what I have tried.

I try to bring some people, some solutions first that I tried and bound some things off.

But I mean, for me at least, I am finally at a point.

I absolutely know shame in asking for this help and I think anyone out there that hasn't,

that damn hasn't broken for you yet.

I just try to find two or three people.

You know, even if it's like, hey, I just want to talk to another guy right now about some

of these things.

And I think you will be absolutely surprised.

Number one, how welcoming people are and how helpful they can be.

And I think also like, we're not alone.

There are a lot of people going through the same things and celebrating the same things

that we have and you know, kind of trying to navigate the same stress that all of us have

as well.

So I think it's really just trying to build your own community.

God, thank you so much for your wisdom that you shared with me and shared with this audience.

And thank you so much for being on the Father of Challenge.

It's been absolutely honor having you.

I loved it.

This is a lot of fun, Jonathan.

Thank you.

Thank you for listening to this episode of The Fatherhood Challenge.

If you would like to contact us, listen to other episodes, find any resource mentioned in

this program or find out more information about The Fatherhood Challenge.

Please visit thefatherhoodchallenge.com.

That's TheFatherhoodChallenge.com.

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