On this episode, Ethan speaks with AIER Senior Research Faculty Phil Magness and Research Fellow Michael Makovi to discuss their academic paper on the efficacy of lockdown policies. The discussion covers the justifications behind non-pharmaceutical interventions, commonly referred to as lockdowns, their effects, and flaws in their implementation. Phil and Michael explain the methodology in their paper, how their study compares to other studies, and why they conclude that lockdowns had no significant role in preventing excess deaths. Finally, the conversation ends by discussing the dangers of combining politics with science and thoughts looking ahead.