Ever tried to buy some chocolate and ended up in a spiral of label-scanning and ethical cross-checking? Tom and Amber open this episode with the dizzying reality of ethical consumerism – and then zoom out.

They’re joined by Nien-Hê Hsieh, who grew up with the Doomsday Clock on his family’s kitchen counter – a daily reminder that money, power, and human choices carry existential weight. Now a professor at Harvard Business School, Professor Hsieh teaches leaders how to navigate the moral gray zones where profit, fairness, and human dignity collide.

From childhood lessons about generosity and anxiety to teaching The Spiritual Lives of Leaders, Professor Hsieh explores the tension between ambition and integrity. He challenges listeners to imagine a “spiritually mature economy” – one that treats money not as an end, but as a tool for care, justice, and shared flourishing.

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