“Did I feel equipped to become a permanent secretary? I thought I was, but I was very quickly disabused of the notion.”

In this episode Sir Peter Housden reflects candidly on his first permanent secretary role at the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. He talks about how he prepared in all the wrong ways, what he learned from the experience and the coping strategies that kept him going.

In 2010 he put his lessons into practice when he moved to become the permanent secretary of Scotland. Here he explores how different the environment was, trust between civil service and ministers, public service reform, the Scottish Independence referendum and how good habits can save you.

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Your host was Siobhan Benita. Kate Hodge edited the episode, and it was produced by James Ede.