“There's no doubt that we have to abolish the carceral state. And there's no doubt that policing and racial capitalism go hand in hand so that we can't be pursuing abolition in a capitalist context,” says author and organizer Andrea Ritchie. In this episode, Andrea and Kelly talk about why the Democrats will not save us, the relationship between abolition and the state, and why it’s so hard for most people to imagine political transformations.

You can find a transcript and show notes (including links to resources) here: bit.ly/movementmemos

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Music: Son Monarcas and Imprismed