This is our 25th episode of the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy. We will trust and the craft cocktail recipe - Spanish Manhattan. This podcast episode features Whiskey Maker - Doug Hall and Whiskey Drinker - Tripp Babbitt.

Show Notes

[00:00:04] The Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy

[00:00:25] Absolute Trust Comes from Your Product Not Marketing

[00:00:44] Marketing Gets Your First Sale - But then the Product has to Continue Sales

[00:02:19] Craft Beer Won in Beer because the Product was Better

[00:03:18] The Wood Makes the Flavor

[00:06:37] People Don't Understand the Wood Makes the Flavor

[00:08:57] Craft Cocktail Recipe - The Mint Julep

[00:09:58] Muddle the Mint with Gusto

[00:10:32] Step 1

[00:10:35] Step 2

[00:10:39] Step 3

[00:10:41] Step 4

 

 

Transcript

Tripp: [00:00:04] This is the Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy podcasts where we're going to take you behind the scenes on what it takes to build a whisk(e)y distillery business. The Eureka! Ranch team led by Doug Hall are creating a craft whisk(e)y company like has never been done before.

 

Tripp: [00:00:25] Well what's move to r Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy absolute trust comes from your product not marketing. I love this one as far as the message that that's here around the role of marketing versus you know the role of a repeat customer.

 

Doug: [00:00:44] So if you're in the craft spirits business or any business marketing will get you your first purchase. But repeat purchases are driven by is the product awesome. And frankly that first purchase usually lose money on it because the marketing expense for that first purchase your profits come from product not from marketing. I'm sorry marketing people I know. I know you think you're God's gift to the corporation but nobody repeat buys marketing. OK. It's just the thing that gets the attention. You're just a trial generating device. And don't don't give me the foo foo on this because otherwise what you're going to end up with. You know what happens in the craft business is there's a whole lot of people that sell products it's a one and done. You know it's a souvenir of visiting the distillery. Oh wait. Oh that's such nice people. I love what they're doing here. There's spirits at products not really that good but here this is the least bad one I'll buy one of those. And just us to support them and now they've got a tourism trinket. It's a souvenir. It's not a product that's consumed. Mm hmm. And what I want is a product that's consumed which is why I love blind tests. I love blind tests with this no marketing with it because it's just straight up is my product awesome or not. No spin movement on it. No hype on it just straight up. Is this product awesome. I mean that's what that's what you want to do. And and and in fact this is the problem. I mean the American craft spirits association did a survey a couple of years ago. Poor product quality.

 

Doug: [00:02:19] One of the very top issues associated with what was holding back craft spirits products aren't good. The products aren't good. The product isn't great it's not great. It's got to be better. The beer guys the craft beer guys had more flavor. Then the Budweiser. They brought something new to the party. Craft spirits people were not careful.

 

Doug: [00:02:47] I know you love your vodka but it's kind of you really hard to get anybody to give a damn about your vodka make your cocktail with three different vodkas and tell me you can tell the difference. I challenge you make your gin and tonic with most gins and you're except for a few which don't have Juniper or not. It's not gonna be that different by the time you put all that sugar in it. Now make your whisk(e)y unique really unique use finishing use different methods to really make it unique.

 

Doug: [00:03:18] Push the grains way two different places change the way you do your aging cause 70 percent of flavor comes from the word manage the wood. And now make a cocktail and one of things we do is we'll make for old fashions with our four core products and then we'll also make the old fashion with vodka and and it's five different experiences five totally different experiences because of the amount of flavor in the way that we're doing it because we purposely make our stuff taste different. So you got to have product product first then marketing. That's my view. It starts with the product. You got to have amazing product. And the industry of the Spirits world tends to be less on product. I was at the wholesaler show down in Orlando and they had brand battle where people came out and they talk blah blah blah about their brand and the amount of conversation about the product was about 5 percent. And I'm like Hmm. Then worked for me. Is the product awesome.

 

Doug: [00:04:20] One guy actually said well yeah we're doing it and we've got a bourbon. You know it's a good bourbon like everybody's bourbon. He literally admitted he had a commodity. I'm like if I had a button I hit the button and he would be like Bugs Bunny would've gone to the floor. So I'm sorry I'm ranting I'm ranting and tired of this marketing b.s. that's going on. Oh fancy bottle fancy package fancy this. We got bottles that cost more than the juice. Bottles and cap label cost more money than the whisk(e)y inside the bottle. That's ridiculous.

 

Doug: [00:05:02] Ridiculous. And that's why I love Tito's. He puts it in the product not in the package. Something to be said for that.

 

Tripp: [00:05:10] Yeah. You know it's interesting. Obviously you know since we started these conversations I really didn't know that much about whisk(e)y. You've taught me everything really I've learned at this point about whisk(e)y but as I've gotten into it now. I still haven't tried your relatively product that I know of unless it was one of the samplings that I did. One time I was at the ranch or or the noble oak and then you've got the four new products but one of the things I am finding is there are certain there are some whisk(e)y that I and I sometimes I wonder Doug it. Is it a matter of my palate that I just don't like that particular whisk(e)y or is there something more. I guess I have risen to the level of knowing what's what's good and bad. Now I did have I will mention the name but but in Indiana whisk(e)y and there's not that many actually here in Indiana but that are that are Indiana made and tried a couple of them and in my opinion they were awful. I mean they were just I couldn't mix them with anything and they tasted terrible straight up to me. And you know so bad.

 

Doug: [00:06:21] Yes bad. Yeah. They bad products.

 

Tripp: [00:06:23] Yes add products. And so people then as you see it from what you're finding is they're leaning more on the marketing than actually trying to get a product that's good. Is that kind of what you're seeing in that industry anyway.

 

Doug: [00:06:37] That's right. They're not if they're not investing. Well the big problem. I mean. I mean just really cut to the chase. The big problem is they don't understand what whisk(e)y is. Whisk(e)y is made from wood not from distilling the distilling is five or 10 percent of it then it's the mash bill and then it's the wood. I mean the wood is there's 70 percent of the flavor. I mean that's where the flavor comes from 75 70 percent from the wood 25 percent from which grains you use and 5 percent is in the distilling and they spend all their time on distilling as opposed to the wood you know and it's the wood and the wood maturation and how you manage that wood that is it. And by the way it's epically expensive by the way. I mean the problem with it is it's really expensive to have all these different woods and to be finishing them and to be having barrel. It's really expensive. It's really really expensive. I mean it makes the cost of the distillery look cheap by the time you have to get the barrels that you need which is why systems like our time compression approach are critical for something like this because we're able to do it much faster much cheaper and I'm still getting the amazing tastes but you have to manage wood you've got to manage wood and you have to be careful about it because if you're not careful like some people are using small barrels thinking that help and you've got to be really precise when you manage those because if you're not careful what you'll end up with is a wooded new make spirit meaning that you'll have a whole lot of oak in the product. It's like a doughnut like at the center of the doughnut but it's wrapped around this harsh new make spirit because you haven't converted the alcohols which is one of the things that has to happen through the aging process.

 

Tripp: [00:08:20] Mm hmm interesting that that. And so so people are working on in your view in the whisk(e)y industry people are working on the wrong problem.

 

Doug: [00:08:31] Well but they just don't understand. Maybe they just don't understand and they don't understand that. I mean they don't understand how whisk(e)y actually made.

 

Tripp: [00:08:46] Well that would be a problem. Then I guess then you would have to lean on marketing quite a bit. Then it becomes more expensive obviously to do that. Yeah. Over time. Yeah. Interesting.

 

Tripp: [00:08:57] Well let's move to our craft cocktail recipe now we've had the help Pino julep I think was one of our earlier drinks that we had. This one is the mint julep. So I just did this. This is this is a staple though isn't it. The Mitchell up is the one that they serve. So like at the Kentucky Derby in that type of thing. Right.

 

Doug: [00:09:19] Right. And coming up to derby time I thought it was a perfect time to do that and to get people prepared so that they can have one most Mint Juleps are horrific. And the three floors are they had too much sugar you know and they use a lot of sugar when they have the wrong whisk(e)y. And that's number two is the wrong Bourbon whisk(e)y that they're using and the three thing is is not muddling with force. You really have to use real force when you do the modelling in order to make it work.

 

Tripp: [00:09:58] So how do you muddle with force.

 

Doug: [00:10:01] You really really take the muddler and press and press and press and press and press and I really learned this down in the Dominican Republic where the mosquito was a lady there who really just ground the with a moral and pestle really did the mint and after that I was I was very impressed. OK so it's really simple..

 

Doug: [00:10:32] Muddle really firmly five mint leaves.

 

Doug: [00:10:35] One teaspoon of simple syrup. That's it. One teaspoon.

 

Doug: [00:10:39] Add some ice crushed if you have it.

 

Doug: [00:10:41] Two ounces of our noble oak bourbon which you can get if you're looking for it go to Noble Oak bourbon Noble Oak whisk(e)y search it up on the Internet we put in the show notes there's a product finder so that you can find it where you are it's in most of the states now stir and enjoy with a sprig of mint as a garnish and you've got the classic mint julep it's an elegant product in fact I think I'm gonna have one of these tonight I think I have never made one so it's all it's always a bourbon so.

 

Tripp: [00:11:13] So just a question I have for you Doug is is one of the four your local Cincinnati whisk(e)y. Is that a bourbon or are they all more complex than that.

 

Doug: [00:11:26] We have two bourbons a rye and a 4-grain whisk(e)y.

 

Tripp: [00:11:29] Ok. So the bourbon would be the Keel Boat.

 

Doug: [00:11:33] No, it's Paddle Wheel.

 

Tripp: [00:11:35] Paddle wheel.

 

Doug: [00:11:36] Paddle Wheel and then the smoked the tall stacked up top stack. OK. And tall stacks will give you a smoked julep which is actually magnificent. So it's really cool.

 

Tripp: [00:11:47] But but for this one you prefer the  noble oak then.

 

Doug: [00:11:50] No, I just thought I mentioned noble oak. I just I just decided to use this one. This is this uses a sherry oak staves so it's a little different taste. And I just thought I'd do this I I.

 

Doug: [00:12:05] I had a cool experience at the craft at the wholesaler conference was at the Ritz Carlton down in Florida. I was in Nathan's the big restaurant the other big fancy restaurant. I saw the picture. Yeah. Yeah I said I said Do you have anything that's Kraft. I mean you've got all these big corporation stuff and you know Johnny Jimmy and Jack and you know all these mega corporations that on those brands you know there's no people there anymore. And I said Do everything craft. And Christine the bartender can move over and she says I have this thing here called Noble oak. We really love it. We've been we just got a bottle of it and the staff loves it. Yeah I know it had. So she gave me a wonderful cocktail and we had a great talk about it. No sooner had everybody over there and I I put it up. I just snapped a picture put a little thing on linked. It's almost 50000 views. Wow. It's crazy. It's crazy but it was it was awful nice to be you know. And she hadn't heard any of the marketing of the hype of the rest of this stuff and she just said I like the taste. And again it was its product product wins product wins.

 

Tripp: [00:13:15] Very good. All right. Any parting words for our Brain Brew Whisk(e)y Academy.

 

Doug: [00:13:21] Now the big thing is folks make products that you love ok don't make crappy products and don't ship crappy products. And and I know I know the industry you want to make everything yourself. The fact of the matter is is in the history of whisk(e)y the biggest whisk(e)y people pre prohibition were blenders who would take the whisk(e)y from different people and put it together. That's an honorable profession being a whisk(e)y maker. Remember the whisk(e)y maker the person who takes the barrels or puts it together or if you're working with us where you choose you would bill and put it together. The whisk(e)y maker. Is the higher paid employee versus the distiller the whisk(e)y maker gets paid 65 percent more than the distiller. This isn't beer. It's whisk(e)y. And in the world a whisk(e)y the talents are bringing together. And if you don't know how to do that. Come see us we'll teach you. We'll teach you how to do it.

 

Tripp: [00:14:19] Very good. And for the consumer. Don't settle.

 

Doug: [00:14:23] No probably don't buy the souvenir when you go visit them. Don't buy that souvenir. Tell them. Tell them you know they'll buy a bottle and just have it sit as a souvenir. We need to help everybody and we need to fight for great products. We've got to get everybody making great products.

 

Tripp: [00:14:42] Brain Brew whisk(e)y is looking for pioneers like existing distillers or entrepreneurs interested in our custom whisk(e)y and craft cocktail experiences. These experiences provide consumers bartenders corporations nonprofits and celebrities the ability to craft whisk(e)y to their taste and preferences. Our system also enables the creation of limited edition prestige whisk(e)y for weddings birthdays or other celebratory events. If you'd like to learn more go to brain Brew whisk(e)y dot com and share with us what you are interested in in the forum provided.