On this episode of The Permanent Problem podcast, host Brink Lindsey welcomes Jonathan Chait of The Atlantic to discuss the abundance movement and the future of the Democratic Party. Chait sees a major role for abundance-based ideas in challenging the agenda-setting power of "the groups," or progressive activists, and pulling the party back toward the cultural mainstream; Niskanen, meanwhile, has been a leader in developing the synthesis of libertarian ideas (housing deregulation, permitting reform) and liberal ones (expanding state capacity, prioritizing the clean energy transition) that underlies the abundance agenda. Lindsey and Chait review the intellectual journeys that led to this convergence of perspectives -- from Lindsey's early attempts at a "liberaltarian" synthesis and Chait's sharp rejection of it, to their discovery of common ground against the backdrop of rising illiberalism on both the right and left.