Generation Covid is a podcast series that asks what it’s like to start your adult life during the worst pandemic in a century. Made by members of Generation Covid, the series talks about being forced to change life plans, how you cope (and when you don’t) staying in touch (at least online) and what happens next.

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In this episode; society. Do we want to go back to our pre-Covid lives? Guyon is joined by Emily Mandel, Clementine Ford and Merepeka Raukawa-Tait.

Has the Covid-19 pandemic really changed the world forever? And if so, how? In the final episode of the After The Virus podcast, focused on society, Emily Mandel, Clementine Ford and Merepeka Raukawa-Tait tell Guyon Espiner their thoughts.

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It was the sound of ambulance sirens that kept bringing Emily Mandel back to reality.

The Canadian novelist's home in Brooklyn, New York is near a hospital and during the month of April the sound of ambulances was constant.

"Any time you stopped to listen, you'd hear a siren. If you stayed up late enough or got up early enough, you'd see them pass by without sirens, just lights flashing down the street."

New York City has been one of the hotspots of the Covid-19 crisis, with more than 200,000 cases and over 21,000 deaths.

So, while for her family the lockdown that started in March has been "okay" - none of her circle of loved ones have died of Covid-19 and she has spent much of her time with her four-year-old daughter working on her rooftop garden "oasis" - the horror has still reached them.

"There is this awareness of death all around us."

Mandel is not the only panellist on the fourth episode of After The Virus who says the sounds of the pandemic got to her. Australian feminist thinker and writer Clementine Ford found it was ambulance sirens that affected her most in the first few weeks of the pandemic too.

"I had that wave of panic or the sense of something fundamental changing in our society."

Instead of looking for a return to normalcy, Ford believes societal change is coming and should be welcomed.

"I do have that sense of not wanting to go back to exactly the way things were. I think that there are opportunities here to see what kind of society we do want to shape."

Ford believes that some economic policies temporarily introduced because of the pandemic, such as housing the homeless, should be permanent.

"It's become very clear to us that the money has always been there to do these things, it was just a lack of political will."…

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Can we get the economy back to normal? Should we? Featuring former Prime Minister Sir John Key, Ecological economist Dr Simon Mair, and economist and writer Philippe Legrain.

Sir John Key says he 'runs out of adjectives' when trying to describe the size of the economic crisis caused by Covid-19.

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The former prime Minister made the comment to RNZ's Guyon Espiner for the podcast After the Virus, which hosts discussions with New Zealand and international experts about the post-pandemic world.

Sir John said the twin health and economic crises facing the world made it a more pronounced problem than the 2008 Global Financial Crisis (GFC), and pointed to China's weakened economy as a factor in the severity of the current crisis.

"China was in much stronger shape and really was a part of the equation that helped the world out of the GFC."

Sir John said one bit of good news was the banks were in a stronger position compared to 2008.

"To me in my mind, the big challenge ultimately will be how quickly can we get to a position where we can return to some sort of normality. Will that take a vaccine and will we deliver one? And ultimately when will confidence return to the consumer?"

Ecological economist Dr Simon Mair and economist and writer Philippe Legrain also appeared on the podcast.

Legrain agreed with Sir John that the current economic crisis was 'an order of magnitude bigger' than the GFC and went on to describe the optimism in some financial markets for a v-shaped recovery as "completely delusional".

"The idea that you can simply shut down an economy and suddenly just flick a switch and it gets going again I think is not true."

Legrain said he thought the aftershocks from the current crisis could last for a decade.

"If you ask the ordinary person in the street how they see the future it's never been more uncertain."

While agreeing that a v-shaped recovery was unlikely, Simon Mair said he didn't want to see a return to normality, as that would underplay the role that economic systems had in preventing a rapid response to Covid-19.

"Given that we know with things like climate change, other crises are coming, I think a return to normality is a mistake."

'What we need is a real transformation to a more resilient economy.'

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Will there be a vaccine? Or will we have to learn to live with the virus? Professor Papaarangi Reid, Tumuaki and Head of Department of Māori Health at the Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences; Dr David Nabbaro, WHO’s special envoy for Covid-19; and former Prime Minister Helen Clark talk with Guyon about health.

A vaccine is not an easy answer to the Covid-19 crisis, warns a leading academic, and we may need to adjust our behaviour to learn to live with the virus.

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Professor Papaarangi Reid, Tumuaki and Head of Department of Māori Health at the Faculty of Medical and Health Sciences, was talking to RNZ's Guyon Espiner in the podcast After the Virus, which hosts discussions with New Zealand and international experts about the post-pandemic world.

Professor Reid said she was hopeful about the development of a vaccine but cautioned against relying solely upon it, citing concerns around timely and equitable access.

'In Māori terms, it (the Covid-19 virus) is a ngārara, something from the natural world and we do have to learn to live with,' said Professor Reid. 'We do have to correct ourselves to learn to live with something that's unpleasant.

'I am concerned that we are pinning our hopes that a vaccine is going to come charging over the horizon any minute now. And I'm not quite holding my breath on that.'

Professor Reid was joined in the podcast by Dr David Nabbaro, WHO's special envoy for Covid-19, and former Prime Minister Helen Clark.

Calling herself a worried optimist, Clark agreed with concerns around the equity of distribution and allocation of a vaccine, arguing that any Covid-19 vaccine needs to be free to everyone. In May Clark joined 140 world leaders in signing a letter calling for all Covid-19 testing, treatment and any vaccine to be made free and patent-free to all. She cited the example of Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the polio vaccine but did not patent it.

'That's the spirit and ethos we need now. The thought that only rich people in rich countries would get access to something that is literally lifesaving and serious disease -preventing is just abhorrent to me'

David Nabarro rejected President Trump's criticism of WHOs response to Covid-19. He said in dealing with a problem of the magnitude and complexity of the Covid-19 virus, public health specialists around the world need to work together collectively with respect and trust to benefit everyone…

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In this episode; work. Will there be any to do?

A leading New Zealand tech CEO says a new global workforce could emerge in the wake of Covid-19, where borders are irrelevant and the office is replaced with video conferencing apps like Zoom.

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Anna Curzon, chief product officer at Xero, made the comments in the RNZ podcast After the Virus, which hosts discussions with New Zealand and international experts about the post-pandemic world.

"You might decide that actually, I don't need to work for an organisation in the place where I live. I can work somewhere else," Curzon said. "We might actually see more free market, labour movement and the global citizen emerge."

Elements of her vision are already emerging with Twitter boss Jack Dorsey saying staff at the social media company could work from home "forever", and Google and Facebook extending their work-from-home policies until 2021.

"What I'm excited about is having a true, diverse and inclusive global workforce," Curzon said. "What we've proven is that you can work from anywhere, for any company. So what you'll see is a separation between where I choose to live and where I choose to work."

Curzon made the comments in an episode of After the Virus discussing the future of work.

US author and economics professor Douglas A, Irwin, who was an economic advisor to President Reagan, said while Covid-19 would accelerate technology and artificial intelligence in the workforce, it may also widen the digital divide.

Huge disruption to the service industries meant that people who had traditionally worked in areas such as retail could be left behind.

"If now we're distancing and retail is going away, and moving goods, we do that with drones and robots, then where are the jobs going to come from for that class of citizens?"

"I think the digital divide is something very, very important. I don't think we really know where we're going on that but it's something to worry about."

Robert Reich, who was US secretary of labour between 1993 and 1997, warned the pandemic could accelerate trends which were already making working lives more fragile.

"The trends toward gig work, toward contract work, the trends toward widening inequality, less and less security in work, the trends toward some people having work that really is only marginally paying, and other people doing exceedingly well." …

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In this episode; politics. How has the virus changed the way we are governed?

The world is sliding towards anarchy as the United States abandons its global leadership position in the Covid-19 crisis, says former Australian prime minister Kevin Rudd.

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He appeared alongside CNN international anchor Christiane Amanpour who singled out New Zealand as having a world leading response to the virus.

Despite America's claim to be the leader of the free world, Rudd said that during the pandemic that leadership has been found wanting.

"As the world looked for American leadership in responding to what was becoming a global crisis, both in public health and in the economy, that American leadership was not forthcoming."

Rudd said America was effectively withdrawing from leading international bodies, including the World Trade Organisation (WTO), the Human Rights Council and the World Health Organisation.

"You could list the other institutions from which the Americans are absenting themselves," he said.

"The response in Beijing is hip hip hooray! There hasn't even been a fight at the O.K. Corral. Instead, the Americans have simply said, 'we're not here anymore.'"

Rudd said China was rushing to fill the void, supplying medical supplies from Europe to Africa, pledging $2 billion to the WHO to fight Covid-19 and engaging in intense lobbying to hold leadership positions on international organisations.

"My fear now is that we end up in ... the slide towards international anarchy, which is no fundamental equilibrium holding the order together, and no leadership being provided by the United States."

Rudd said it was already happening in the falling away of international trade rules, which had big implications for smaller trading nations such as New Zealand and Australia.

Rudd, who was Australia's foreign minister as well as prime minister, said under Donald Trump's administration of the US, protectionism had increased and the WTO disputes resolution process had fallen into disrepair.

"If you want to know what it looks like, look no further than the WTO because it is a harbinger of what is happening - the slow and steady drift towards anarchy," Rudd said. "There are exit ramps, but no one's taking them at this stage."

CNN's international anchor Christiane Amanpour echoed Rudd's concerns about US leadership.

"I think it's very worrying that the United States has abandoned its historic role as a global coalition builder and a global force for good in the world."…

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Has the pandemic bought us any time to arrest climate change? If so, was the price we paid too high?

Covid-19 has shrunk the 10 years the world had to address climate change to no more than 18 months, according to the United Nations lead negotiator for the Paris Agreement.

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Christiana Figueres, head of the UN climate change response that led to the Paris Agreement in 2015, said the $10-20 trillion being spent on economic recovery packages around the world would not be repeated.

"We thought this was the decisive decade for climate change. No. Forget it. This is it," she said.

"Those 10 years that we thought we had have now been shrunk into basically anywhere between three to 18 months because by the end of those 18 months all the decisions, and in fact most of the allocations of the recovery packages, will have been made."

She made the comments in a new RNZ podcast After the Virus, speaking alongside the current head of the United Nations Development Programme Achim Steiner and New Zealand's Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment Simon Upton.

Both Upton and Steiner said rebuilding a post-pandemic economy in a way that addressed climate change would require profound change for industries vital to New Zealand: aviation and tourism.

Figueres said that because much of the world had gone into lockdown the planet had recorded the biggest carbon crash ever, with 2020 emissions likely to be 8 percent down on last year.

She said that while this was more than the 7.6 percent drop needed every year this decade in order to avoid dangerous tipping points - the result was not good news.

"It is not good news because the drop in emissions has come at a very, very high human cost. We have lost thousands of lives. We have lost millions of livelihoods. That is not the way we are planning on decarbonising the economy," she said.

"The responsible decarbonisation of the economy has to be a drop in emissions and an increase in the quality of life of the human population. So this is almost getting to the right destination with absolutely the wrong path."

The world will lock in rising emission levels if changes aren't made now, says Christiana Figueres

Figueres said the world was now at an "irreversible T junction" and if nations tried to return to the old normal they would lock in rising emission levels.

That would mean kissing goodbye targets of staying below 1.5-2°C warming - the level needed to prevent sea level rises, flooding, extreme weather conditions and other destructive effects of climate change…

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'After the Virus' , a 6-part podcast and video series exploring how the Covid-19 pandemic will change the world in the long-term.

We're half way through 2020 and there's barely a nation on Earth that Covid-19 hasn't touched.

Close to five million people have contracted the virus. More than 300,000 have died.

But now, all around the world, people are starting to lift their heads, look around and step out of their homes into a new reality.

The question is; what does that world look like?

To try to answer that, RNZ is making a podcast and video series about the post-pandemic world.

Hosted by Guyon Espiner, 'After the Virus' talks to New Zealand and international experts about the way our world will change in the wake of Covid-19.

On video, on radio and as a podcast, over six episodes, we'll be asking how we'll live, how we'll work, govern ourselves, the future of our economies, our health system and our environments.

Because there are many questions and they all need answers.

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