Guest: Alan Zucker, Founder of Project Management Essentials
Host: Kumar Dattatreyan
Episode Date: November 25, 2025
Duration: ~45 minutes
Watch on YouTube

Ever feel like the whole "Agile vs Traditional" debate is just... exhausting?

Alan Zucker was doing agile at MCI Communications in the 90s—before the manifesto even existed. He launched a 48-state product in 5 months with almost no bureaucracy. Then he went to Fannie Mae and watched what happens when you add too much process.

Here's what he learned: The framework debate is a trap. And it's costing you time, money, and good people.

If you're an agile coach wondering where your career went, or a PM tired of framework zealots on both sides, this conversation will reset your thinking.

🔥 "Don't Blame Agile for Bad Agile"
Organizations killed agile by implementing the ceremonies without changing the culture. Daily stand-ups and Kanban boards don't mean anything if you haven't changed how power and decisions actually work.

💡 The MCI Magic Formula
"On any given day, anybody could do something amazing." That was the culture. Not because they had the right framework—because they gave people actual power to make decisions.

🎯 Bureaucracy vs. Governance
There's a huge difference. Governance gives you visibility to manage. Bureaucracy is about control. Most organizations think they're doing one when they're actually doing the other.

📊 The 75% Failure Rate
Three-quarters of change campaigns fall flat. But when leaders actually change their behavior (not just their speeches), trust scores jump 25%. Systems beat slogans every time.

🏢 The Physical Proximity Factor
Alan watched collaboration break down when his team moved from one floor apart to two buildings apart—only 20 feet of distance. Remote work multiplies this problem unless you're super intentional about it.

On what made MCI special:
"The great thing about the company is that on any given day, anybody could do something amazing."

On what killed agile:
"Organizations would completely invert 'Individuals and interactions over processes and tools'—and they implement agile processes. We have daily stand-ups, we've got a Kanban board, but we haven't changed the way we work."

On empowerment:
"A way we show empowerment is through decision making. When you join a company, your power shouldn't be stripped from you."

On remote work's future:
"It'll be really interesting in five years to see which companies brought people back versus which stayed remote. It's not that you can't be remote—it just adds a whole other level of complexity."

Sounds basic, right? Then why do most organizations fail at all three?

If you're an agile coach who got laid off:
Learn to speak both languages. The future isn't about being pure anything—it's about knowing what tools to use when.

If you're stuck in framework wars:
Stop. Alan's doing a whole "Back to Basics" series because the fundamentals matter more than which camp you're in.

If you think "project" is a bad word:
Alan's take: "Language is great for communication, but words take on connotations. If you don't like 'project,' fine—but I'm still missing what word we'd use instead."

The hybrid question everyone asks:
Should agilists learn traditional PM? Should traditional PMs learn agile? Stop asking which side you're on. Start asking what actually works for your situation.

Shoutout to Taz who was on fire in the comments:

Q: "Many with agile experience have been laid off. Where do we go from here?"
Alan: Focus on hybrid approaches. Learn what you don't know. Get back to basics instead of framework religion.

Q: "Should agilists brush up on traditional PM skills?"
Alan: Yes. And check out PMBOK 8—it's finally moved beyond rigid processes.

Q: "HR often needs the most help in transformation. Thoughts?"
Kumar & Alan: 100%. Agile got too IT-centric. Transformation is about people, and HR controls the levers that either enable or kill change.

Project management is at a crossroads. Interest in both Waterfall and Agile has dropped. Everyone's talking about AI but nobody knows what it means yet.

Instead of chasing the next framework, Alan's going back to what's always worked: culture, empowerment, and actually changing how decisions get made.

If you're tired of:

This conversation is for you.

Website: pmessentials.us
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alanizucker

Alan teaches at UVA and University of Georgia, writes monthly articles, and works with organizations on what actually works. Follow him on LinkedIn to catch his "Back to Basics" series.

Website: agilemeridian.com
The Disruptor Method: thedisruptormethod.com | Take the quiz: Are you a disruptor or getting disrupted?
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/kumardattatreyan

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New episodes every week featuring people who've actually done the work—not just read about it.

P.S. If you've ever implemented "agile ceremonies" without changing anything else, this episode will hit different. Alan's seen it all, and he's not holding back.

#ProjectManagement #AgileTransformation #DisruptionAndInnovation #BackToBasics #HybridPM