Artificial intelligence is the force reshaping the music industry's future. And the legal battle over who gets paid, and for what, is just getting started.

In 2024, the major labels sued AI music companies Suno and Udio. Music publishers sued Anthropic this year for $3 billion. The AI companies say training on copyrighted music is transformative, and protected by fair use. Rightsholders say if you're building a business on music, you have to pay for it. The courts haven't settled it. Congress hasn't touched it. But the marketplace is already moving.

Larry talks with David Israelite of the National Music Publishers Association and Judge David Strickler of the U.S. Copyright Royalty Board, both adjunct professors at NYU Steinhardt, about fair use, the shadow of litigation, why voluntary licensing deals are quietly multiplying, and whether greed, fear, or good old-fashioned bargaining theory will ultimately draw the line between innovation and compensation.

In this episode:

• Why the fair use argument is the central legal battleground, and what the courts have said so far

• How settlements with Suno and Udio are reshaping the landscape before any landmark ruling arrives

• Why voluntary licensing deals are multiplying, and what the YouTube era teaches us about where this is headed

• Whether Congress will step in, and why the best-case scenario is that it doesn't

• What the next three to five years look like for creators, rights holders, and the AI companies caught in between