This time Mike and Paul are speaking with Alex Lang and Thilo Utke: Berlin-based founders of Cobot about paternity leave, baby groups, having kids while running a startup, memories and language.

Alex Lang and Thilo Utke - Paternity Leave(ing Work at 5:30)

A podcast that assumes it's normal for working dads to be present in their kids' lives. We speak to fathers about their work-life balance and what works (and doesn't) with their kids.

Hosted by Mike McQuaid, software engineer and dad of two wee boys, and Paul Campbell, a CEO, founder, conference organiser and dad of two wee lads.

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A podcast that assumes it's normal for working dads to be present in their kids' lives. We speak to fathers about their work-life balance and what works (and doesn't) with their kids. Hosted by Mike McQuaid, software engineer and dad of two wee boys, and Paul Campbell, a CEO, founder, conference organiser and dad of two wee lads.

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Alex Lang and Thilo Utke - Paternity Leave(ing Work at 5:30)

Alex Lang and Thilo Utke - Paternity Leave(ing Work at 5:30)