In this rare and unguarded conversation, former CIA officer John Kiriakou takes us behind the curtain of a world few have ever seen and even fewer dare to talk about. The discussion weaves through art, war, and the complex moral landscape of espionage, revealing how creativity, deception, and human psychology shape intelligence work.John shares riveting stories of covert operations—how terrorists were painstakingly turned into U.S. assets, the delicate negotiations with double agents who lived in constant danger, and the razor-thin line between success and disaster in secret missions. These are not just tales of geopolitics and power, but also deeply human accounts of trust, betrayal, sacrifice, and survival.Together, we explore the intersection of secrecy and storytelling, the emotional toll carried by those tasked with defending national security, and the ways in which the clandestine world mirrors art itself: layered, symbolic, and open to interpretation. With honesty and reflection, John Kiriakou sheds light on the hidden machinery of global conflict while challenging our assumptions about heroes, villains, and the cost of truth.This is more than an interview—it’s an immersion into the shadows of history, where choices made in silence have shaped the fate of nations.0:00 - Intro 0:29 - Love of Art 3:50 - Recruitment into CIA 5:37 - CIA Conspiracies/ MK Ultra7:45 - Dasht-i-Leili Massacre 14:45 - Heroin in Afghanistan and CIA Involvement with Drugs 23:12 - Double Agents within CIA41:12 - Turning a Taliban Fighter in CIA Asset 48:25 -John Kerry and War in Middle-East1:03:52 - Israel/ AIPAC/ Lobbyist1:21:35 - Mossad and KGB Spies in USA 1:35:02 - "Where will the USA be in 20 Years?"