Former governor Michael Dukakis has strong views on the importance of public transportation. He thinks it's an important investment but he's also a believer in keeping costs in check. We talk here about rail as a regional issue and national imperative, and hear his views on how should governors and legislators should be thinking about rail infrastructure, and about the importance of a connection to New York, especially for Berkshire County, as well as the East-West Rail project and the North-South Rail Link.

See below for an edited transcript of the interview.

Michael Dukakis is known as Democratic presidential candidate and long-serving governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. He has served as Vice-Chair of the Amtrak Board of directors and today is a professor of political science at Northeastern and UCLA. He's also known for his transit advocacy and for his recent efforts to promote the much-needed North-South Rail Link in Boston. He grew up and still lives in Brookline.

Transcript

Note: This transcript was created using AI and then lightly edited for readability. It is time-stamped , which is useful as a guide to finding a point in the recording, but the time-stamps are not a perfect match to the podcast because we've added an introduction and did some editing.

Karen Christensen

We began our conversation by talking about his childhood interest in trains.

Michael Dukakis 01:44

Well, I wanted a train set when I was a kid. And those days line was the brand. And my father wouldn't get it for me for Christmas. I was probably nine or 10. And he made the right decision, because two years later, I would have been interested in something else. In anyway, that's when it all began. But you know, I grew up in Brookline, which had a and has always had a public transportation system for a long time. And it was just so obvious to me that the Commonwealth was in desperate need of a first class, public transportation system. And beyond that, you know, the country needs a great real system, and just got into it, and have been in it ever since. I think we made a lot of progress when I was governor. But we're not making any progress these days.

Karen Christensen 02:38

Yes. And you've been in in recent years, you've been very much known [for your work on rail.]

Michael Dukakis 02:44

And I'm not the only one. I mean, they're a good group of people that strongly for this. And we've been working hard at it, but we can't move Baker. His Transportation Secretary is a nice person, but she's not a builder. And so here, we said, with great opportunities, and we're just not moving. And

Karen Christensen 03:13

We have a new president coming in soon, a new administration, who loves trains. This is certainly made me smile, many, many aspects of it. It's made me have made me smile. How does that create opportunity and for those of us who are advocates for rail, in, in the state and in the nation, what can we best do now? I do want to talk specifically about North-South Rail Link, but perhaps some general thoughts from you on what this new administration can do for the country and for our futures?

Michael Dukakis 03:57

Well, Biden is a great advocate of this, probably as strong as anyone in the Congress. And he has been for a long time. So I'm feeling optimistic. I was blessed as governor with a Secretary of Transportation in the form of Fred Salvucci. There's nobody better. I don't know if you ever met Salvucci?

Well, Fred's the son of an Italian immigrant bricklayer who came over here, and eventually created his own brick subcommittee as a subcontractor. Fred's one of these guys who went off to MIT and got two degrees. He’s got political smarts coming out of his ears, and he's a rare combination of extraordinary intelligence and political skill. And we worked together on this for a long time while I was governor. He also had a great talent for picking people, and picked great people. He had a terrific team, includ