Always Be Testing

Sunil Kaki, Founder & CEO of Clove Growth, joins Tye DeGrange to trace the career blueprint that took him from a CJ call center to Fortune 500 CMO roles. They dig into brand vs. performance marketing, why chasing every new channel kills growth, CAC/LTV discipline, optimizing the first-user experience, the affiliate marketing philosophy that actually works, building trust with your CFO, and where AI agents fit into modern marketing.

Connect with Sunil: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sunilkaki/

#AlwaysBeTesting #PerformanceMarketing #Marketing

Mike Mallazzo, GM at Alephic Media, joins Tye DeGrange to unpack the next arbitrage window: marketing to LLMs and AI search engines. They cover AEO and GEO strategy, how brands get cited by ChatGPT and other AI assistants, the emerging opportunity in AI-driven ad arbitrage, why partner and affiliate marketing are becoming core to AI search strategy, and why traditional attribution models (MMM/MTA) are losing their grip.

#AlwaysBeTesting #AEO #GEO #AISearch

Katerine Tamargo, Head of AI at CJ (Commission Junction), joins Tye DeGrange to unpack one of the most surprising findings in generative engine optimization: more than 83% of AI citations point to third-party sources, not brand-owned content. They dig into the KPIs that actually define AI visibility — mention rate, sentiment, position, and citations — and why a rigorous test-and-learn methodology beats chasing tactics. Katerine also busts a few of the biggest myths circulating about GEO and agentic AI, and explains how publisher compensation models are evolving as AI reshapes the path to purchase.

What you'll learn:
• Why third-party content — not brand-owned pages — wins the majority of AI citations
• The KPIs that define AI visibility: mentions, sentiment, position, and citations
• How to build a real test-and-learn framework for GEO instead of guessing
• Why the old "owned media" playbook doesn't translate to AI search
• How publisher compensation is shifting as AI answers replace clicks
• Common myths about GEO and agentic AI, debunked

Michelle Eatherton, Chief Business Officer at Liminal, shares how she convinced her co-founder to build the company partner-led from the very first call, before there was even a product. She and Tye dig into why mid-market enterprises are the underserved sweet spot for AI governance tools, and what it really takes to earn a hyperscaler co-sell relationship.

Jordan Bentley, founder of Audio Hook, explains how he built a performance-based podcast advertising model where brands only pay for real outcomes, not impressions. He and Tye talk about why AI made ad production easier (not the strategy), and why geo-based incrementality testing beats promo codes for proving what's actually working.

Michael Gants, founder and CEO of Encore, breaks down how apps can turn unused "streak" and celebration screens into a new revenue stream, without a single ad or paywall. He shares how brands like Disney, Uber, and Apple are paying to reach users in their happiest moments, and why founders should be more afraid of a broken CAC/LTV ratio than of running a monetization experiment.

Brook Schaaf, co-founder of FMTC and author of the new book Affiliate Hypotheses, joins Tye to make the case that affiliate marketing might be the internet's best — and sometimes only — way to monetize the open web. They dig into why walled gardens like Google and Meta get outsized credit for conversions, and why AI search is putting the open web's survival at risk.

Vikram Chalana, CEO and founder of Pictory, joins the show to unpack how his AI video platform went from 50 customers to 5,000 in just 60 days — and why the breakthrough came from changing the market, not the product. He digs into Pictory's State of Video report (AI adoption has no Silicon Valley bias — Florida and Indiana are leading users), the design principles that keep Pictory out of the "timeline" trap of tools like Premiere, and what's next: code-generated, interactive video that could reinvent how content gets made and consumed.

Remy's Danielle Sakher explains how her team balances speed with observability and security as AI coding tools move from novelty to enterprise infrastructure. She shares what it's really like selling an AI builder to security-conscious industries like financial services, plus a wild stat: alpha users have already spent $300K in AI compute.

Darryl Yearwood, who leads partnerships at Apollo, makes the case that a smaller, higher-quality partner roster beats chasing volume every time. He and Tye get into what "not plug-and-play" really means in affiliate marketing and how to build partnerships that actually move revenue.