Barbara, Dan, and Kelley talk to GWU professor Samuel Goldman, author of After Nationalism: Being American in an Age of Division, talking about what defines the country today, and how we might re-orient our exceptionalism towards being a model rather than a missionary. In the first segment, Kelley and Dan relive the Donald Rumsfeld of 2002 and 2003, and his Iraq War legacy.

More from Goldman:

America Has a Ruling Class: Why do members of the political elite insist that they’re not? -- New York Times

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