Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are discussing the 1999 cult classic "America Pie." Woof, watching this movie was super cringey. It is rated R for a reason, there is a lot of sexual content and while we use pretty professional language to discuss it, make sure to listen away from little one's ears. We reminisce on the actors, clothing and music, while the movie draws some laughs there are also some serious topics discussed such as consent, rights to privacy and dare we say "female empowerment," (I know, just listen to the episode for the context). We hope you enjoy!

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[00:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.

[00:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.

[00:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.

[00:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.

[00:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.

[00:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.

[00:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.

[00:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.

[00:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: And your DSM Five and enjoy.

[00:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Welcome back to another episode of Analyze Scripts. We are so excited to talk about little little interesting movie, some some deeply problematic themes. But American pie.

[01:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: American Pie. Do you guys remember that movie? When did that even come?

[01:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: 99.

[01:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: I was definitely in, like was I in middle school? High school.

[01:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I was in late elementary school. And I have a little story for you.

[01:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay.

[01:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So if you are listening to this later or listening to it right when it comes out, the idea is that it's summer. We're releasing this in July. This is also a part of our Jennifer Jennifer Coolidge. So if you like Jennifer Coolidge, be sure to catch more episodes that should be near to the release of this one. But so american Pirates, released in 1999. I was definitely in elementary school, but older, and I was not allowed to see the movie. I was going to say, obviously rated R for sure. Lots of sexual content. So I went to a friend's house after school, and they had a nanny and who was like, an older woman. It wasn't, like, a teen. And she was going to take us, three of us, to American Pie in theaters. And I remember calling my mom, like, I didn't know what it was. And I called her, and I was like, yeah, we're going to go to the movies. We're going to see American Pie. My mom was like, what? No, you're not. No, you're not. And I was so mad because she came and picked me up. And everyone else got to see it.

[02:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: They're watching it.

[02:29] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. I don't think so.

[02:32] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay, we'll give them the benefit, maybe.

[02:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know.

[02:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay.

[02:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I remember being so mad, like, furious that I didn't get to see American Pie and now watching it back as an adult. So I haven't seen this movie fully in years.

[02:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, maybe decades, honestly. Right. This movie is can you imagine if you saw it as like, a fourth.

[02:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Grader or fifth grader for the most part? I think 90% of it would have gone over my head. But some of the scenes where Jason Biggs, aka jim, is humping the apple pie and you see his buttocks. And then the other scene where you do with Nadia full *******.

[03:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

[03:15] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And and you know hands going under clothes.

[03:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, it's you know that masturbation scenes.

[03:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

[03:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: You know, that you'd see.

[03:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And I'm just curious, like, at what age do you even know what that is? Because, like, little kids, you're exploring your body, stuff like that. But if I was, like, four watching the movie oh, my God.

[03:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Hopefully PSA. Don't let a four year old watch this.

[03:39] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But it's like, when is the line where it's, like, you start to get actually what's going on and how inappropriate it is?

[03:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Probably, like, middle school, like 7th grade, 8th grade. But, like, in in these in this day and age with, like, technology and stuff, I feel like kids are exposed to sexual content so much earlier. It's, like, the thing that keeps me up at night. I think there was a study that came out, or maybe not a study, but, like, an article that said a lot of children these days are exposed to ****, I think as early as, like, fourth grade.

[04:11] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah.

[04:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Which is really scary. And I might not be quoting that accurately, but it was, like, four years earlier than I would have naturally anticipated. And that's so scary. Like, you're saying, how do you wrap your head around that and make sense of is that quote unquote, like, normal sexual interactions or ways of showing intimacy when so much of it, even in this movie, crosses the line, and oftentimes at the expense of women.

[04:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah. I mean, just thinking of the one thing, which I will you know, we'll start with the positive okay. That I was like, wow, watching the movie is that every teen, even though they're playing their 20s, filming looks like a teen. They have textured skin, there's bumps. You can tell there's makeup over some acne. They're shiny faces. Their teeth have they're not chiclet, perfect veneers. They're real teeth that are not I think they're probably, like, whitened, but they're very normal, appropriate teeth. Bodies still feel like 90 big ***** guinea waist. But still, even with that being said, I feel like a little bit more normal than what you might see today.

[05:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, for sure.

[05:30] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That was like a breath of fresh air and then just reminded me of all the content that we see now. Even, again, like, an appropriate show for kids that's not animated. It's like, the people are so airbrushed and have veneers oftentimes, and it's just so unrealistic. And that's what's everywhere. Even if it's a good kid show that is positive, that is message. Right.

[05:54] Dr. Katrina Furey: I remember Miley Cyrus, I think, has talked about her time on Hannah Montana, and I think she I forget, like, the word they use, but I think it's called, like, flippers or flappers. Like the type of fake teeth that they make these kids wear. And again, just how curated and perfected these people are on TV. And also, it just creeps me out to think about what old white man executive is deciding what these young children should look like or what these early 20s actors portraying teenagers should look like. I can't think about it too deeply.

[06:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And I mean, really recently, all the stuff that has come out about Dan Shriiber from Nickelodeon and all of his.

[06:42] Dr. Katrina Furey: I haven't heard about that.

[06:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That people cannot speak on. And then also just thinking of so the new show The Idol on HBO just came out and a lot of people are like, criticizing Sam Levinson's.

[06:53] Dr. Katrina Furey: He did euphoria right.

[06:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Which we're going to cover Gross with women and then Stan Schineider with women. With kids. Anyway.

[07:02] Dr. Katrina Furey: But yeah.

[07:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So the movie American Pie kind of opens with a scene about masturbation. So the parents kind of walk in on Jim masturbating. And then that leads to some pretty awkward and comedic it's a comedy conversations about masturbation and sex and sex between.

[07:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Covad Jim and his dad, played by Eugene Levy, who I love. And I love his eyebrows. But oh, my gosh, all of those scenes with him giving him the nudie magazines and being like, okay, extend this center fold. And this is a ******. And just like really going to town. You could feel the cringe. It was perfect.

[07:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

[07:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Really good. It's so funny. And I'm sure every parent and child feels cringey when you're having those discussions. At least they were having them, though, right? Like so many people go through life having no discussions. And that's got to be confusing.

[08:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Or you're getting only your information online.

[08:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Like from **** or from some other source that isn't reliable, I guess, is the word.

[08:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, like real. That's true. So basically, Jim and his friends so Jim, Oz, and the other, the third male, decide to all lose their virginities prior to going to prom. Right?

[08:30] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, I think they wanted to lose it before going to college. And then maybe they all decided, like, promise something like that.

[08:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: One of the lines during the scene was so gross, I have to pull it up. So get it right. It was let me see. We're going to fight for every man who deserves to get laid and doesn't.

[08:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, wow, what a cause to take up arms.

[08:55] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So basically, men deserve to be laid whenever they would like to be, despite consent of the other person, however horrible. Icky line. Then one of them says it needs to be valid, consensual sex. Good. So it cannot be from an escort or prostitute, and it cannot obviously be.

[09:17] Dr. Katrina Furey: An assault non consensual.

[09:19] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But I liked that even in 1999, they did say that very specifically.

[09:25] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think that's pretty big.

[09:26] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: There was some manipulation we see throughout the show of trying to get laid or have sex. So anyway, one of the many and.

[09:36] Dr. Katrina Furey: I feel like gross. Yeah. I feel like teenage boys trying to get laid by prom seems like a pretty stereotypical storyline, right? This isn't the first movie to have this goodness, groundbreaking plot, but for some reason, this one really was successful and jumped out. And it was, even all these years later, still pretty funny. It was a pretty entertaining movie to watch, even decades later. So I wonder what contributed to the success.

[10:07] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I looked up a lot of the cast just to get their names, and many of them have not done really anything else that I think that they would like. Stiffler hasn't jason really biggs. Really only did his cameo kind of in Orange is the New Black. He hasn't really done much that's they.

[10:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Have a lot of sequels, too.

[10:27] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yes. And that's what is giving them the paycheck still. And then, obviously, Eugene Levy has been in so many things. Schitt's Creek. Love it. And then his newer show, which is.

[10:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: I watch oh, yeah, the traveling one, right?

[10:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's like the anxious traveler.

[10:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Is he really nervous?

[10:44] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah. It's such a good show. You could watch it with your family. It's beautiful places that he's exploring. So, anyway and then some of the other people.

[10:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: But Jennifer coolidge, man.

[10:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was a lot.

[10:57] Dr. Katrina Furey: I mean, I feel like there was a gap. And she's had a real renaissance.

[11:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Natasha Leone was in it.

[11:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: I forgot that she was in it. Like, Tara Reid obviously was in it, but so a lot of them haven't really been in big blockbusters since then. I mean, Tara Reid was in Sharknado, like, one through 100, probably. Yeah, it seems like they've all had careers, but maybe nothing has really escalated except maybe Jennifer Coolidge. She's really having a heyday right now.

[11:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: John Cho isn't a lot.

[11:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: He plays John in the movie.

[11:28] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He is in Harold and Kumar. A lot of them were just also, like, actors of the time. Teen stoner or sex movies. But anyway. So did you have any moments in the movie where you were just like, I literally want to cringe and throw up? Besides the whole movie that was really disgusting.

[11:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: The one where the girl was being filmed without her knowledge.

[11:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's disgusting in a different sense.

[12:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Okay, what are you thinking?

[12:02] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The one scene that I just had to look away was when.

[12:08] Dr. Katrina Furey: The other.

[12:09] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Guy that I can't think of, his name is with his girlfriend.

[12:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: Do I look up the name on.

[12:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The bed and she is giving him oral sex, and he ********** into the beer cup.

[12:20] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then Stifler drinkler comes up with.

[12:22] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The girl to try to have sex. And then she keeps almost drinking it.

[12:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: And then he finally does and he knows frothy.

[12:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I can feel my stomach just churn.

[12:37] Dr. Katrina Furey: That was disgusting.

[12:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Repulsive.

[12:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, shocking.

[12:40] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, again, like, picture an eight year old watching this, which is why.

[12:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, my God, please shouldn't yeah, exactly. Even like a mid 30s year old, it's, like, really gross. And you kept being like, no, don't drink it. Yeah, that was disgusting and cringe. Like, in a legit. Disgusting. Like, gross. Like potty humor. But then there were definitely parts of this movie that just I don't think would fly today. Like that scene with Nadia. Well, first of all, so she's coming over to Jim's house to study.

[13:15] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right?

[13:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Like, she wants to study. This is, like, the exchange student.

[13:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I think she says interior motive.

[13:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: Oh, she does?

[13:21] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, I thought she really wanted Jim.

[13:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's where I got really confused. I was like, Why did oh, no. Because she had ballet and then wanted to change undressed. Right. I was really confused.

[13:36] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then they studied, which I think Jim would have loved, too. He was at their house. Maybe he sits near her. He seems really nervous and shy.

[13:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And then she masturbates, and then somehow it's broadcasted on a webcam.

[13:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. So Jim had the idea, which, again, this is illegal, in case anyone didn't know, to film him and Nadia potentially honestly doing anything.

[14:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. I think he was hoping maybe they'd make out or maybe hoping it'd go all the way. But, yeah, fully illegal. Jim and the rest of humanity don't do that. And even if it weren't illegal, it's so icky and, like, gross. Right.

[14:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I mean, it's not consensual.

[14:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Non consensual. That is the definition. Right.

[14:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So, accidentally, right. The total dream is sent to everyone in the school. So what I think is how it gets comedic relief is that because then Jim goes back. They're like, oh, man, she's in your bedroom literally naked. Like, come on. And he goes back, and then she makes him, which is, like, the differential power then which makes it then funny, like strip. And he knows that he's being recorded. So you see him trying to throw the shirt and cover it because God.

[14:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: Forbid ye be exposed in that way. Right. Yeah. With knowledge, at least. Right.

[14:53] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So, yeah. Gross. Consent is very important. I think that should be really the biggest part of parents Caregivers, whomever talking about and schools, maybe in sexual education talking about sex.

[15:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: I think it starts even hello earlier than that. I feel like all the way to daycare preschool. Exactly. Personal space. Even with, like, tickling. When someone says stop. Stop means stop. When someone says no, no means that. Like, you can start teaching that to really young kids super early and just laying the groundwork. And I feel like at least what I see of society these days is sort of hedging that way compared to maybe back in the 90s. But definitely that's a good groundwork to lay. And then when you talk about sexual consent, super important. And yeah, so this movie had, like, mixed messages. Like, sometimes they were on point, maybe even ahead of their time with thinking about consent, and other times, they really missed the mark. And we're kind of trying to make a joke of it. And again, it's like, well, this was a really successful movie. I guess people thought it was funny. But now when you watch it, or at least me, I'm just like, well.

[16:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I think if we think back to 1999, you know what I think of in 1999?

[16:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Backstreet Boys Millennium album. That's what I think of.

[16:12] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You love them?

[16:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: I love them.

[16:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I was more of an in sync gal.

[16:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: That's okay. We're showing you we can reach across the aisle.

[16:20] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So in 1989, I think recording on phones, personal cameras, right. Was very nuanced.

[16:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: And again, you see that Jim's probably pretty privileged to have a webcam. This wasn't, like, a normal thing. Right.

[16:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So I think if even thinking back to the earlier 2000s with flip phones and just, like, recalling our own experience with when did you get a phone? When did your phone have a camera? And then thinking back to middle school, high school or college, wherever you kind of land with nude pictures going around. And again, I think that it was really nuanced and people didn't know or have expectations of what could happen. And I think one of the biggest differences is now we do know, and there's so many laws now that have been put into act to really deal with the technology.

[17:09] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And again, what really bugged me about this part of the movie is not just that it happened, but then that she was punished. Like, she was sent back off to wherever she came from as an exchange student. And it seemed like Jim could just go school. Right.

[17:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Made fun of him, but not really.

[17:27] Dr. Katrina Furey: They also were like, yeah, man, you're the best. But he didn't get expelled. He didn't get suspended. He didn't get charged with a crime, which, like, he certainly could nowadays. So that was disappointing. But again, maybe on par with 1999. I think so, probably. Unfortunately, I still think people can get away with things.

[17:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, yeah. No, I agree. I just think it was like, ha ha. More of the Boys Club, certainly, then it was.

[17:59] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right. Even the fact that this was, like, in the movie and the movie was wildly successful, I don't remember there being a lot of outrage about this part.

[18:07] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And the new I think they thought that they were doing well at this, and maybe they were at the time, but so if we think about Band Camp Girly so it's the dynamic between Jim, right, initially trying to have power over Nadia. Right. So, like, having the male role, I'm going to get her to have sex with me. It's like then Band Camp Girl at the end is right. Like, she's had sex many times.

[18:33] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[18:33] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She is teaching him, but he kind.

[18:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: Of, like, gravitated toward her because he thought maybe that she'd be she's, like, so demure. She plays the flute in the band. Like, she might be what you might have called back then, an easy lay or something, and that she would be.

[18:50] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So lucky to have sex with him.

[18:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: Right.

[18:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Versus then it being kind of the other way around. I think they started to and I don't know if this was intentional or.

[18:59] Dr. Katrina Furey: Not, but they started exploring that dynamic.

[19:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Conversation of we're going to make fun of really gross things, but then we can make it funny because we're like switching female. She's actually the one who has all.

[19:13] Dr. Katrina Furey: More experience and she's the one who leaves the next day. All of a sudden he's really into.

[19:19] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, and that's not a typical reaction. Right.

[19:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: But then you see it sort of like sparks his interest. And I think we know they go on to get married in, like, a future movie. What do you think about Stifler's mom?

[19:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So she is definitely portrayed as, I'm assuming, this cougar who allows wild drinking parties, which again, you're not allowed to do, can be.

[19:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I think there are still parents who do that. But yeah, again, I don't know because I wasn't really hip on the laws back in the 90s, but I know there are at least some laws in some states nowadays where parents can get in serious trouble for having parties where kids are drinking underage.

[20:05] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. And instead of like I think they can trace it back now better. Like before, if my parents allowed me to have a wild party and then someone on their way home died, right? Like from a drinking and driving accident. It's like before, I think in the so on and so forth, it was like they made that mistake, that person. But now it's like they will go back to who bought the booze? What adult did this and press charges? So, anyway, so Stifler's mom is definitely a cougar. She is a divorcee, having some it seems like money. She's got a lot of lake house.

[20:43] Dr. Katrina Furey: She was like at the party, though, I forgot that part, that she was.

[20:47] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like there.

[20:49] Dr. Katrina Furey: In the basement drinking her scotch.

[20:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, that is as she said it, she likes her scotch just like she likes her partner's, men, whatever, 18 years aged.

[21:01] Dr. Katrina Furey: You're, like, feels really gross.

[21:06] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But again, she's a woman. Right. And intentionally, I think even then, if.

[21:12] Dr. Katrina Furey: It had been a day, a man.

[21:13] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Coming onto a girl, that would have been like, gross.

[21:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: It wouldn't have been funny at all.

[21:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But this is, like, funny because Stiller's mom is a milk, as they talk about and learn the lingo, what's a milk? So I thought that was funny and I was like, did we learn what a milk was from this movie?

[21:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, because we all know what a milk is. Maybe explain it. I wonder if that was even a.

[21:38] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Term before that's what I mean.

[21:39] Dr. Katrina Furey: Someone looked that up on Urban Dictionary and send us a DM. That's interesting.

[21:53] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So anyway, it seems like she goes on to have sexual intercourse with another male character whose name I cannot recall.

[22:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Is he the one who was afraid to **** at school, though.

[22:03] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

[22:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: So I thought that was interesting that the guy with the phobia about using public bathrooms gets with Stifler's mom. It was just like and pre that.

[22:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He has started all these rumors with the help of Michelle Leon's character to talk about how cool he is.

[22:21] Dr. Katrina Furey: So he gets laid. Oh, yeah, that's right.

[22:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: One of the rumors is that he beat up Stifler. So Stifler gives him some sort of a laxative.

[22:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yes.

[22:32] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then he ends up having to use the bathroom at school and oh my goodness.

[22:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: No other I mean, what a type of inadvertent exposure therapy, I guess, right?

[22:41] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: ERP just no one no therapy again, would non consensual.

[22:47] Dr. Katrina Furey: It was interesting. As I was watching this, I did find myself wondering does Jim have social anxiety disorder? I don't know. What are your thoughts about that? He always just seemed really nervous in social situations.

[22:57] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like fear of judgment more so than others. And then thinking also like that it is really common for teenagers to have more of a focus on what others are thinking of them. But he feels I'm sure all of them felt that way, but he felt more intuitively, so could be diagnosable, but worth exploring.

[23:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. And I liked the relationship for the most part between Tara Reed's character and her boyfriend and how it seems like they'd been together for a while and it seemed like she really wanted their first intimate moment together to be perfect. That was kind of like the stereotypical desire of losing your virginity on prominery, wanting it all to feel great and then sort of hearing her perspective about it compared to his perspective, where he just wanted he was like eager to get it, to do it and keep doing it and then go to college again. I thought was pretty stereotypical of, like, this is what girls want. This is what boys want. That's not always true, but at least it was sweeter than some of the other relationships or dynamics we were seeing depicted. Remember Oz was like the jock, the stereotypical jock who played I think it was lacrosse. And then it seemed like he only joined the show choir hoping to hook up with Heather or with someone, maybe. Again, this power dynamic that you identified portia, I think, keeps coming out over and over that they're trying to pick like the quote unquote nerdy girls thinking they'll have a better chance with that and like, I don't appreciate that.

[24:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

[24:31] Dr. Katrina Furey: I don't appreciate that depiction very much.

[24:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

[24:34] Dr. Katrina Furey: And by that I mean I don't like it.

[24:37] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: No, but they did feel like the most consensual Heather and Ozone.

[24:45] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I don't think they even had sex. I think they just spent that night together and he was falling for her. But again, I just feel like that's just so stereotypical. It's like I don't know.

[24:58] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. I mean, the movie was I think I laughed. Not that often, and most of the time I just cringed and was like.

[25:07] Dr. Katrina Furey: OOH, yeah, yikes, yikes. And just yeah, thinking about like, way back then, it was so popular. It was, like, wildly popular.

[25:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Ten of them.

[25:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

[25:16] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So they kept making three American Wedding, american Vacation or something like that. I think there are talks of like.

[25:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: A reunion movie or something. Yeah, I could see that. Especially nowadays with all the reunions being really popular and like, bringing back stuff from the past into the present day. I could totally see that happening.

[25:34] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Just I'm scrolling Google right now. People magazine came out with in April 18, 2023. So a couple of months ago. American podcast. Where are they now? So it's like People still it's definitely piece.

[25:48] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's definitely part of our culture, for sure. And it's just interesting. Like, why?

[25:56] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think because part of it was like nuanced, right? It was, like, weirdly in a really back ended, not at all appropriate way now, but I don't even want to say it because it's not true, but like, oh, like female empowerment. Like, these guys learned, right? Like, that the girls were the one who were, like, running the show or they actually were their own sexual people.

[26:22] Dr. Katrina Furey: They had, like, autonomy, they had their.

[26:23] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Own consent, they had their own dreams.

[26:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Urges, urges, fantasy, all of that.

[26:31] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought you were like, no, because you're right, it's not.

[26:35] Dr. Katrina Furey: But I can see what you're saying. Yeah, it's kind of like the narrative a little bit. Like we're tiptoeing toward female empowerment. I feel like that's a strong phrase, but I get where you're going with that.

[26:48] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You're like, let's talk about American Pie and female empowerment. That'll be the title of this episode.

[26:55] Dr. Katrina Furey: But no, I see what you're saying. And maybe especially for 1999, that the era of, like, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera and all these other sexualized females. Yeah, maybe that.

[27:06] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And there's so much now. I mean, we could go on a four hour rant just about how so much has come out now of the media treatment of the pop star females at the Times. And I think even uniquely Britney Spears and Justin Timberlake's breakup and everything, all the negative stuff was put on Brittany and even the questions journalists asked, et cetera, et cetera.

[27:28] Dr. Katrina Furey: And at that time, there was a huge emphasis on the female pop stars maintaining their virginity. Right. That was a big thing that was talked about and then soon ish after that. Then it was like the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus with their purity rings, and that was like a big emphasis and yet right juxtaposed to how sexually they were dressed and viewed as sexual objects in that way. So, yeah, you're right. I think even just thinking back to the female characters in this movie, like, the clothing they wore, I didn't think for the most part, I didn't think of it as overly sexualized. It seemed like pretty normal like skirts and polo shirt.

[28:08] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Really high school typical of the time. Even trends, right? That's what was in cardigans.

[28:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, exactly. But not like super low cut or super, super short or anything like that. And then as everything plays out, the women do end up having a lot of the power all the way from Stifler's mom all the way down to bandcamp girl Michelle. Michelle yeah. And I do have to say, I know everyone remembers her comment about bandcamp, but I forgot that she said at some point one time at bandcamp, we all thought it'd be funny to play our instruments upside down. And I was like, I actually think that'd be really funny and kind of fun. So I appreciate that.

[28:49] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I loved how she just kept saying, this one time of Bangkok, this one time of Bangkok.

[28:52] Dr. Katrina Furey: And you see like, he's getting so really tired.

[28:54] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then she makes the comment about.

[28:56] Dr. Katrina Furey: Where she put the and he was like, what?

[28:59] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then all of a sudden, right, it's like and that's where the tide switch. That's when she's like, come on upstairs.

[29:04] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. She's like, oh, yeah, that's what Pink camp is. It's like 5% playing your instrument and 95%, like having sex and none of the counselors know.

[29:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, the other scene that I was just thinking of is pre stiffler drinking the beer. Is that when she's like, oh, but I don't want you to tell anyone. He's trying to convince that girl to have sex or whatever. And he's literally which, again, I thought they just did such a good job covering this. He's like rolling his eyes, being like, yeah, I just want to have sex with you, and then I'm going to talk to everybody about it. And he's like, no, I would never tell anyone about this. This is our time. This is special.

[29:44] Dr. Katrina Furey: Such a liar.

[29:45] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So gross.

[29:46] Dr. Katrina Furey: And I feel like that happens, at least back then. I hope now it doesn't happen.

[29:52] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Up power, we talk about a lot of non consensual. Sex is mostly not being attacked, right? It's mostly different power dynamics. It can just be a person with social popularity or more social standing in school who you feel like you really want to be liked and you really want their approval. And that's, I'd say, the most common form of non consensual.

[30:16] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah, I think that's a really important message to get across. Portia that I feel like the stereotype of a non consensual sexual encounter or assault or rape is like being attacked by a stranger in the stairway in a parking garage or something like that. And that does happen. It's terrible. But way more often, it's what you're describing, where it is someone you know, someone maybe you feel like you can trust or you want to trust or you want to be liked by. And there is this power dynamic, whether it's age, social status. I'm thinking of like at your place of work. Like a boss or someone with some sort of power or authority over you. And it can go both ways, which we see portrayed with stiflers.

[31:01] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think just again, we were kind of like, what are we going to talk about with this movie? And there's some good social commentary, I think, of the times, which is always interesting to reflect on. But also, just like I mean, a big theme of it is consent.

[31:14] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah.

[31:14] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And with sex comes consent, and teenagers are having sex.

[31:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: It's happening. It has happened since the dawn of time. It will continue happening. Yeah.

[31:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So kudos to Eugene's attempts at talking about the birds and the bees with Jim and just pointing things out. Again, I don't think he really shared ultimately helpful, this is what you should be doing, this is how it's safe, et cetera. He just gave him some magazines and then was like, so the pie. Let's talk about that.

[31:50] Dr. Katrina Furey: But how terrified would you be if you came home and found your son having sex with the pie? I guess it's better than some things.

[32:00] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it is. I'd still just being a therapist. I'd probably be like, let's come from a place of curiosity, and maybe you don't feel comfortable talking to me about it. I'm going to have you talk about it with someone else. And maybe it's only one session, but I just want you to talk about.

[32:15] Dr. Katrina Furey: It and get some facts right.

[32:18] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then that can be one session. Or maybe you want to go back, and then there can be more.

[32:23] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Really interesting.

[32:25] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I remember having the conversation.

[32:26] Dr. Katrina Furey: Yeah. Not ignoring it, not brushing it under the rug. Not saying, we'll just tell your mother we ate it all so good. Oh, my gosh. Again, it just really personified. Just, like, teenage awkwardness and angst and cringiness and wanting to be like and.

[32:42] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Wanting friends and nervous about the transition after high school. I know some of it, again, is, like, super normal. And still, till the dawn of time, or until something crazy happens and changes how we should, this will always continue to be right.

[33:00] Dr. Katrina Furey: Any final thoughts as we wrap up?

[33:04] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I would say watch or beware. And don't let eight year olds watch this, please.

[33:10] Dr. Katrina Furey: Dear God, don't. I think it's rated R for a reason. It's very R. Yeah, it's very R. All right.

[33:17] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Cool.

[33:18] Dr. Katrina Furey: Well, thank you for tuning in to another episode of Analyze Scripts. Please rate, review and subscribe and share with your friends near and far. Follow us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts and on TikTok at Analyze Scripts podcast, and we'll see you next Monday for White Lotus Season One, and continue to.

[33:35] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Follow along with us all month long with Jennifer Coolidge.

[33:38] Dr. Katrina Furey: Jennifer coolidge. July. If she wants to come on the pod, you are welcome.

[33:43] Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Okay, bye bye.

[33:51] Dr. Katrina Furey: Content are a copyright of analyzed scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with.

[34:03] Dr. Katrina Furey: Your friends and rate review and subscribe, that's fine.

[34:06] Dr. Katrina Furey: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

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